PCI Speed and Overclocking: A Closer Look at A64 and P4 Chipsets
by Wesley Fink on February 16, 2004 9:42 AM EST- Posted in
- CPUs
PCI Speed and Overclocking: Test Results
| PCI Bus Overclocking Tests | |||
| Motherboard CPU |
Chipset | PCI Speed at 220 Base FSB Setting | Functional PCI Lock |
| Asus P4C800-E Pentium 4 3.2C |
Intel 875p | 33.3 | YES |
| Asus P4S800D-E Pentium 4 3.2C |
SiS 655TX | 33.3 | YES |
| Soltek SL-PT880PRO Pentium 4 3.2C |
VIA PT880 | 33.3 | YES |
| AOpen AK86-L Athlon 64 3200+ |
VIA K8T800 | 36.6 | NO |
| ECS 755A2 Athlon 64 3200+ |
SiS 755 | 36.6 | NO |
| Soyo CK8 Dragon Plus Athlon 64 3200+ |
nForce3-150 | 36.6 | NO |
As you will see in results with the new VIA PT880 board for Intel, early testing raised questions about whether the PCI/AGP lock was working. However, tests with PC Geiger showed the new VIA PT880, as well as the Intel 875P and SiS 655TX, all have a working PCI lock. We have seen outstanding overclocking results with the Intel chipsets and SiS 655TX chipsets; the working PCI lock certainly contributes to that outstanding overclocking performance.
The big surprise here is that none of the current chipsets for Athlon 64 have a working PCI lock, whether they claim one or not. This was a complete surprise and our first inclination was to throw out the results, since speeds on the Athlon 64 are derived in a very different way with Hypertransport. However, oscilloscope results and tests elsewhere pretty much support our findings. There does not appear to be a working PCI lock on any current chipsets for Athlon 64. Certainly, this contributes to the poorer overclocking that we have seen on A64 inasmuch as on-board component frequencies and AGP bus are related to PCI bus.
Please keep in mind that we have only measured PCI bus speed with PC Geiger. While we expect on-board component speeds and AGP to be affected also, we cannot say that with certainty on Athlon 64 systems. Some reports on the web claim that AGP frequency is fixed on both VIA and nVidia chipsets on the Athlon 64. We can neither confirm nor deny these claims with the simple tests that we have performed here. Also keep in mind that results are for 6 individual motherboards. We can generally assume these results apply to the chipset used, but in some cases, this may be a stretch. The ECS 755A2 is designed to be a value board, for example, and 'PCI lock' may simply not have been implemented on this board. On VIA and nVidia chipsets for Athlon 64, our results do mirror those measured objectively at other sites using other VIA and nVidia A64 boards and we are more confident applying these results to chipset assumptions.
We will continue to look at PCI speeds in future tests of new boards and chipsets, particularly those designed for Athlon 64 processors. For now, it certainly appears that a floating PCI bus is one of the factors holding back overclocking on all current Chipsets for the Athlon 64.
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slewis5150 - Sunday, February 29, 2004 - link
How is this going to relate to pci eXpress?Pumpkinierre - Thursday, February 19, 2004 - link
So, Wesley#24, does this mean that some of the low maximum overclocks AT has shown for the A64 might have been as a result of PCI bus failure. Wouldnt it be possible to have a go at 234MHz for the Aopen and some of these other chipsets which supposedly had a PCI lock (nf3,SIS) but may be, like VIA, a dividor transition.Wesley Fink - Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - link
#23 - As we were testing in the article, none of the current Athlon64 chipsets have working PCI locks - and that includes nVidia and SiS (at least on the ECS). Some of the board makers do have a feature where a 1/7 multiplier kicks in at 233 and the PCI bus drops back to spec. We found that to be the case on the AOpen AK86-L which uses the VIA chipset.Jeff7181 - Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - link
Ummmm... I was pretty sure Sis and nVidia both had PCI/AGP locks and Via is the only one who can't get it right. Is this untrue?Xentropy - Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - link
Is this article going to be updated with the new information about 1/7 dividers and which boards have them? Not everyone reads the comments and would see the details.bigtoe33 - Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - link
Guys I bought the PCI geiger for Wesley from www.scan.co.uk They still show stock but I have just been informed its a discontinued product. If you want one I would grab one now.soki - Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - link
Good Job Wesley!Pumpkinierre - Monday, February 16, 2004 - link
Thank you Wesley!Wesley Fink - Monday, February 16, 2004 - link
As many have suggested as a possibility, it does appear different multipliers kick-in at 234 on the AOpen AK86-L. At a 233 setting PC Geiger shows PCI speed as 38.8, while at 234 the PCI readout drops to 33.2.TrogdorJW - Monday, February 16, 2004 - link
Is there any chance that a BIOS hack or something could adjust the PCI clock later in the boot process? You stated that you didn't load the OS and only booted into the BIOS. This seems a bit of a quick-and-dirty test, especially with the A-Open having acheived much higher results than other boards.My suggestion, in addition to including higher bus speeds, is to also get to the point where the OS is actually being loaded. You don't need to let it boot completely, but at least let it start. Get well beyond the BIOS POST test before assuming that the PCI speed being reported is "final".
On the other hand, the people questioning whether or not ALC655 and various other devices would run at 43 MHz... that's actually quite possible. Back in the day, I had a Pentium MMX 200 running at 250 on an A-Bit IT5H motherboard, which ended up being an 83 MHz bus and AGP and a 41.5 MHz PCI. (Ahhh... the good old Intel 430 HX chipset. Those were the days! /nostalgia.)
Later, I had Celeron 300A through 366 all running on 83.3 MHz bus, giving the same overclocked PCI and AGP. Finally, I am STILL running an A-bit BE6-II Rev. 2.0 motherboard on a 133 MHz bus. That motherboard has a 1/4 PCI divider, so PCI is in spec, but the AGP is running 2/3 and is at 88.9 MHz! I have a GeForce 4 MX 440 in it and it serves as my movie/music entertainment center.
Having been an overclocker since the days of the Pentium 166, I feel quite safe in saying that the "overclockability" of devices varies greatly. Some ATA/IDE setups can't handle more than 5 MHz out of spec (38 MHz or so), while others can clearly handle AGP and/or PCI speeds up to 33% out of spec. Only thorough testing will say for sure what any device can handle, and that's way beyond the ability for any one company/website to test.