Investigations into Socket 939 Athlon 64 Overclocking
by Jarred Walton on October 3, 2005 4:35 PM EST- Posted in
- CPUs
Memory Options
Memory has been a major part of overclocking since we shifted to locked CPU multipliers back in the Athlon/Pentium III era. With the move to DDR RAM on the Athlon and Pentium 4, it has become even more important. Since all processors other than the Athlon FX chips (and Pentium M) are multiplier locked - at least on the high end of the scale - increasing your CPU clock speed means that you have to increase the system/CPU bus speed. If your default bus speed is 200 MHz and you have a 10X multiplier, you end up with a 2000 MHz processor. Raising the bus speed to 220 MHz would give you a 2200 MHz CPU, but it would also require memory that could run at DDR440 speeds. That's the way it normally works, and so we have unofficial memory speeds of up to PC4400 (DDR550) that allow you to overclock your bus, CPU, and RAM beyond the standard specification.
However, there are alternative methods of overclocking that may not require ultra high speed RAM. High speed RAM generally costs quite a bit more, and if your goal in overclocking is to get higher performance without spending a lot more money, doubling the cost of RAM defeats that purpose. We'll be looking at the impact of using the lower memory ratios in order to keep standard PC3200 at or below DDR400 MHz speeds. This means that you could use any PC3200 memory. There will be some performance loss, but the question is: how much? That's what benchmarks are for...
On the other end of the RAM spectrum, we find the high performance and high cost parts. Yes, you can buy some untested DIMMs with similar ratings to the high performance RAM for less money, but we're more interested in exploring guaranteed RAM speeds in this article, so we won't be taking that route. However, even if you can't reach the RAM speed that you want, our value RAM will serve as a minimum performance metric. At the high end, there are a few major contenders.
First, there's the high performance, high voltage RAM like OCZ VX and Mushkin Redline. (They probably use Winbond CH5 blanks, and we'll just use CH5 to refer to this memory from here on out. We could be wrong on the actual chips used, however.) You'll need a motherboard that can supply up to 3.5V to the RAM to get the most out of such memory, with 2-2-2-6 1T timings possible for as high as DDR533, give or take. You'll also want to get active cooling on the memory if you go this route. The next option is to grab some of the re-released Winbond BH5 DIMMs, which are similar to CH5 in that high voltages allow for 2-2-2-7 1T timings up to DDR500 speeds. The price and performance of these two options are roughly equivalent, with the CH5 generally reaching somewhat higher speeds. The drawback of CH5 is that it also requires at least 3.0V just to run at 2-2-2 timings and DDR400 speeds, where BH5 can do the same with only 2.6V. The final option is to go for the tried-and-true Samsung TCCD (or TCC5) DIMMs. You'll sacrifice some performance and have to lower the timings as RAM speeds increase, but the good news is that you won't need more than 2.80 to 2.90V to reach maximum clock speeds. You can also get TCCD DIMMs up to DDR600 and even beyond, which serves to counterbalance the better timings of BH5/CH5. The cost of Samsung TCCD is roughly the same as the other two choices.
So, which RAM do you choose? There are several factors, and in order to keep the number of benchmarks from rapidly bloating, we only used one type of value RAM and one of the performance RAM options.
We chose Mushkin PC3200 Value RAM rated for PC3200 operation at 2.5-3-3-8 timings. Command rate is not specified, but our testing generally worked well using 1T. (There were a few tests that required 2T at overclocked speeds, which we'll cover later.) The interesting thing about this RAM is that we can no longer find it online or at Mushkin's site (the site only shows 3-3-3-8 value RAM now), but just about any 2.5-3-3-8 RAM should perform similarly. You can see a picture of the RAM sticker (with timings) above. If you want to try pushing your RAM beyond DDR400, we recommend that you read our Value RAM Roundup for the best recommendations. The Mushkin RAM and test settings that we're using are basically the worst-case scenario as far as value RAM goes - in other words, just about any RAM should be able to match the performance that we achieved.
For our high end RAM, we used what we already had available: OCZ Rev. 2 Platinum (TCCD memory as opposed to the newer TCC5 memory). One of the benefits of this RAM is that it doesn't run as hot as the BH5 and CH5 when overclocked, so active cooling won't be required at maximum clock speeds. Active cooling means more noise from your PC, and while few overclocked systems are truly quiet (without resorting to water cooling), many people will agree that adding more fans to the case isn't really desirable. This doesn't mean that BH5 or CH5 is a bad choice, and in many instances, either would be slightly faster than TCCx RAM.
The final pieces of the overclocking puzzle are the choice of case and power supply. Case selection influences (to a large degree) the number and arrangement of fans that you can use for cooling, though anyone with a bit of skill and a Dremel tool can add extra fans if needed. We'll talk a bit about heat sinks and fans for CPU cooling as well. First, let's start with the power supply, as it is more directly comparable to the components that we've covered so far.
Memory has been a major part of overclocking since we shifted to locked CPU multipliers back in the Athlon/Pentium III era. With the move to DDR RAM on the Athlon and Pentium 4, it has become even more important. Since all processors other than the Athlon FX chips (and Pentium M) are multiplier locked - at least on the high end of the scale - increasing your CPU clock speed means that you have to increase the system/CPU bus speed. If your default bus speed is 200 MHz and you have a 10X multiplier, you end up with a 2000 MHz processor. Raising the bus speed to 220 MHz would give you a 2200 MHz CPU, but it would also require memory that could run at DDR440 speeds. That's the way it normally works, and so we have unofficial memory speeds of up to PC4400 (DDR550) that allow you to overclock your bus, CPU, and RAM beyond the standard specification.
However, there are alternative methods of overclocking that may not require ultra high speed RAM. High speed RAM generally costs quite a bit more, and if your goal in overclocking is to get higher performance without spending a lot more money, doubling the cost of RAM defeats that purpose. We'll be looking at the impact of using the lower memory ratios in order to keep standard PC3200 at or below DDR400 MHz speeds. This means that you could use any PC3200 memory. There will be some performance loss, but the question is: how much? That's what benchmarks are for...
On the other end of the RAM spectrum, we find the high performance and high cost parts. Yes, you can buy some untested DIMMs with similar ratings to the high performance RAM for less money, but we're more interested in exploring guaranteed RAM speeds in this article, so we won't be taking that route. However, even if you can't reach the RAM speed that you want, our value RAM will serve as a minimum performance metric. At the high end, there are a few major contenders.
First, there's the high performance, high voltage RAM like OCZ VX and Mushkin Redline. (They probably use Winbond CH5 blanks, and we'll just use CH5 to refer to this memory from here on out. We could be wrong on the actual chips used, however.) You'll need a motherboard that can supply up to 3.5V to the RAM to get the most out of such memory, with 2-2-2-6 1T timings possible for as high as DDR533, give or take. You'll also want to get active cooling on the memory if you go this route. The next option is to grab some of the re-released Winbond BH5 DIMMs, which are similar to CH5 in that high voltages allow for 2-2-2-7 1T timings up to DDR500 speeds. The price and performance of these two options are roughly equivalent, with the CH5 generally reaching somewhat higher speeds. The drawback of CH5 is that it also requires at least 3.0V just to run at 2-2-2 timings and DDR400 speeds, where BH5 can do the same with only 2.6V. The final option is to go for the tried-and-true Samsung TCCD (or TCC5) DIMMs. You'll sacrifice some performance and have to lower the timings as RAM speeds increase, but the good news is that you won't need more than 2.80 to 2.90V to reach maximum clock speeds. You can also get TCCD DIMMs up to DDR600 and even beyond, which serves to counterbalance the better timings of BH5/CH5. The cost of Samsung TCCD is roughly the same as the other two choices.
So, which RAM do you choose? There are several factors, and in order to keep the number of benchmarks from rapidly bloating, we only used one type of value RAM and one of the performance RAM options.
We chose Mushkin PC3200 Value RAM rated for PC3200 operation at 2.5-3-3-8 timings. Command rate is not specified, but our testing generally worked well using 1T. (There were a few tests that required 2T at overclocked speeds, which we'll cover later.) The interesting thing about this RAM is that we can no longer find it online or at Mushkin's site (the site only shows 3-3-3-8 value RAM now), but just about any 2.5-3-3-8 RAM should perform similarly. You can see a picture of the RAM sticker (with timings) above. If you want to try pushing your RAM beyond DDR400, we recommend that you read our Value RAM Roundup for the best recommendations. The Mushkin RAM and test settings that we're using are basically the worst-case scenario as far as value RAM goes - in other words, just about any RAM should be able to match the performance that we achieved.
For our high end RAM, we used what we already had available: OCZ Rev. 2 Platinum (TCCD memory as opposed to the newer TCC5 memory). One of the benefits of this RAM is that it doesn't run as hot as the BH5 and CH5 when overclocked, so active cooling won't be required at maximum clock speeds. Active cooling means more noise from your PC, and while few overclocked systems are truly quiet (without resorting to water cooling), many people will agree that adding more fans to the case isn't really desirable. This doesn't mean that BH5 or CH5 is a bad choice, and in many instances, either would be slightly faster than TCCx RAM.
The final pieces of the overclocking puzzle are the choice of case and power supply. Case selection influences (to a large degree) the number and arrangement of fans that you can use for cooling, though anyone with a bit of skill and a Dremel tool can add extra fans if needed. We'll talk a bit about heat sinks and fans for CPU cooling as well. First, let's start with the power supply, as it is more directly comparable to the components that we've covered so far.
101 Comments
View All Comments
Furen - Monday, October 3, 2005 - link
Actually, Winchesters are pretty bad overclockers. They were even worse overclockers than newcastles and clawhammers back when they came out, which is why the FX-55 was clawhammer based rather than Winchester based.ksherman - Monday, October 3, 2005 - link
hmmm... Im running a 3000+ winchester, and ive got it to 2.56GHz... thats quite an over clock if you ask me... you would probably be the first person I have EVER say that the winchesters do not OC well...ksherman - Monday, October 3, 2005 - link
is there any performance hit when using memory dividers? I have heard that there is, as the memory and CPU are running on different frequencies... and is it better to keep you RAM @ DDR400, and use dividers or run the RAM @ DDR480?ShadowVlican - Monday, October 3, 2005 - link
so i'm guessing basically, A64's prefer low latency than high frequencyJarredWalton - Monday, October 3, 2005 - link
Pretty much. If you think about it, 10x240 with DDR333 setting is actually identical to 12x200 with DDR400 setting. The RAM is at DDR400 in either case. The difference between a 960 MHz HT speed and 1000 MHz HT speed is... well, if you measure more than a 1% difference, I'd be surprised. :)Wesley Fink - Monday, October 3, 2005 - link
Memory dividers DO make a difference in performance on the Intel platform, where the memory controller is in the chipset and latency is relatively high. Basically, the architecture derives memory ratios with added overhead which can definitely impact performance, and 1:1 memory ratio is best.However, the memory controller on the Athlon 64 is on the processor and memory frequencies are derived from HT on the A64, without adding overhead. That means, theoretically, memory dividers should have NO impact at all on Athlon 64 memory performance - everything else being equal (which it rarely is).
ksherman - Monday, October 3, 2005 - link
well i decided to go for the RAM dividers... upto 2.56GHz, memory using the 5/6 divider (DRAM/FSB) RAM @ DDR466 @ 2-2-2-7 3.3V! was at 2.13Ghz, since I didnt want to use memory dividers. so a nice jump in speed! now I just got to find do some benchies! BTW- I am using a DFI Ultra-D and it is the greatest board I have ever owned! havent done the SLI mod yet, but I dont need toksherman - Monday, October 3, 2005 - link
hmm... guess if i read the WHOLE article... ;-)good article though! I highly reccomend the 'Value VX' RAM aka OCZ Value RAM, since when you put enough voltage into it (3.2V in my case) it overclocks like a charm! Im getting DDR 480 with tight timings (not EXATLY sure, but something 2-2-3-8 1T)
Garyclaus16 - Monday, October 3, 2005 - link
Well,...the article states that there have been performance hits with higher dividers. Best way to find out with yourself is to do your own benches! No two systems will overclock exactly the same, so the best way to figure something out is to try it on your own..Aquila76 - Monday, October 3, 2005 - link
If your RAM will run stably at DDR480, leave it. I had to drop mine down becase there's some issue with the mobo higher than 250MHz.