Investigations into Socket 939 Athlon 64 Overclocking
by Jarred Walton on October 3, 2005 4:35 PM EST- Posted in
- CPUs
RAM Latency
We talked about memory latency a bit before, and we estimated the total latency. Using CPU-Z and the included Latency.exe utility, we can get an actual real value for memory latency - or at least, more real than our estimate. There are different ways of measuring memory latency, but we simply took the highest reported value from the table that was generated. For every system, that value was in the bottom-right corner of the table, indicating a data set of 32MB and a stride of 512. While the values may or may not be entirely accurate, they should at least be consistently measured across all the tested configurations. Here are the results, in CPU cycles as well as nanoseconds. Remember that at higher CPU speeds, each cycle is faster, so pay more attention to the nanoseconds graph.
The value RAM is obviously slower than the performance RAM across the tests. This is not at all surprising. You can see how the latency of the performance RAM trends downward until we were forced to drop to 2T or PC2700 in order to reach a stable result, while the value RAM fluctuates more. Every time that we have to drop the speed, i.e. from PC3200 to PC2700, there is an initial increase in latency, followed by a trend downward until we have to drop to the next RAM ratio.
While the value RAM is clearly slower than the expensive RAM, the big question is: how much performance do you actually lose by opting for more economical RAM? This is one of the areas that we are interested in testing for this article, and we'll comment on the results throughout the benchmarks.
RAM Possibilities
One area of the BIOS that's missing (for now) is support for additional RAM ratios. The reality is that the RAM speed is derived from the CPU clock with a divider. Ideally, we'd like to see a BIOS that gives direct access to the CPU divider rather than hiding it behind approximate memory speeds. That would allow for the selection of a larger range of options, but we're not sure if that's something that AMD controls in the CPU or if the BIOS programmers can do this. Here's a list of the standard RAM Settings, CPU multipliers and the resultant memory dividers that were available in the Infinity BIOS.
We have a LanParty UT nF3 250Gb that includes support for many in-between options from DDR200 through DDR500. Some of the interesting inclusions are DDR240, DDR280, DDR300, DDR360, DDR440, and DDR500. (CPU-Z actually failed to report the divider on a couple of those settings, but the resultant RAM speed was still read properly.) While additional memory dividers on the high end won't really help tweakers looking to get the most from the TCCD, BH5, or CH5 RAM, they can be particularly useful when using value RAM. All you need to do is select the appropriate divider to get your RAM under DDR400 - assuming standard value RAM. That way, you wouldn't take as much of a performance hit by running something like 10x250 (2.5 GHz). You could select a 13X divider rather than the standard 15X divider.
Additional ratios can even be useful for tuning performance RAM. For example, OCZ VX would not run stable above DDR500 (10x250), and we had to use 2-3-3-8-1T timings even then. (The 3.2V limit of the motherboard was at least partially to blame.) Running at 10x270, we had to drop to DDR333 (CPU/12), which resulted in the RAM running at DDR450 rather than the DDR540 result that would have been required for the normal CPU/10 ratio. However, if we could have selected a CPU/11 ratio, we could have run the RAM at DDR490 and gained a bit more performance. The additional ratios aren't required, but they would be nice to have.
If the last two paragraphs didn't make sense, then you can guess why we don't get additional access to RAM dividers. Experienced users might know how to make use of the settings, but many people would simply get confused; a "Catch-22".
We talked about memory latency a bit before, and we estimated the total latency. Using CPU-Z and the included Latency.exe utility, we can get an actual real value for memory latency - or at least, more real than our estimate. There are different ways of measuring memory latency, but we simply took the highest reported value from the table that was generated. For every system, that value was in the bottom-right corner of the table, indicating a data set of 32MB and a stride of 512. While the values may or may not be entirely accurate, they should at least be consistently measured across all the tested configurations. Here are the results, in CPU cycles as well as nanoseconds. Remember that at higher CPU speeds, each cycle is faster, so pay more attention to the nanoseconds graph.
The value RAM is obviously slower than the performance RAM across the tests. This is not at all surprising. You can see how the latency of the performance RAM trends downward until we were forced to drop to 2T or PC2700 in order to reach a stable result, while the value RAM fluctuates more. Every time that we have to drop the speed, i.e. from PC3200 to PC2700, there is an initial increase in latency, followed by a trend downward until we have to drop to the next RAM ratio.
While the value RAM is clearly slower than the expensive RAM, the big question is: how much performance do you actually lose by opting for more economical RAM? This is one of the areas that we are interested in testing for this article, and we'll comment on the results throughout the benchmarks.
RAM Possibilities
One area of the BIOS that's missing (for now) is support for additional RAM ratios. The reality is that the RAM speed is derived from the CPU clock with a divider. Ideally, we'd like to see a BIOS that gives direct access to the CPU divider rather than hiding it behind approximate memory speeds. That would allow for the selection of a larger range of options, but we're not sure if that's something that AMD controls in the CPU or if the BIOS programmers can do this. Here's a list of the standard RAM Settings, CPU multipliers and the resultant memory dividers that were available in the Infinity BIOS.
Standard AMD Memory Ratios | |||
RAM Setting | CPU Multiplier | RAM Divider | True RAM Speed |
DDR200 | 9X | CPU/18 | DDR200 |
DDR266 | 9X | CPU/14 | DDR257 |
DDR333 | 9X | CPU/11 | DDR327 |
DDR400 | 9X | CPU/9 | DDR400 |
DDR200 | 10X | CPU/20 | DDR200 |
DDR266 | 10X | CPU/15 | DDR267 |
DDR333 | 10X | CPU/12 | DDR333 |
DDR400 | 10X | CPU/10 | DDR400 |
DDR200 | 11X | CPU/22 | DDR200 |
DDR266 | 11X | CPU/17 | DDR259 |
DDR333 | 11X | CPU/14 | DDR314 |
DDR400 | 11X | CPU/11 | DDR400 |
DDR200 | 12X | CPU/24 | DDR200 |
DDR266 | 12X | CPU/18 | DDR267 |
DDR333 | 12X | CPU/15 | DDR320 |
DDR400 | 12X | CPU/12 | DDR400 |
We have a LanParty UT nF3 250Gb that includes support for many in-between options from DDR200 through DDR500. Some of the interesting inclusions are DDR240, DDR280, DDR300, DDR360, DDR440, and DDR500. (CPU-Z actually failed to report the divider on a couple of those settings, but the resultant RAM speed was still read properly.) While additional memory dividers on the high end won't really help tweakers looking to get the most from the TCCD, BH5, or CH5 RAM, they can be particularly useful when using value RAM. All you need to do is select the appropriate divider to get your RAM under DDR400 - assuming standard value RAM. That way, you wouldn't take as much of a performance hit by running something like 10x250 (2.5 GHz). You could select a 13X divider rather than the standard 15X divider.
Additional ratios can even be useful for tuning performance RAM. For example, OCZ VX would not run stable above DDR500 (10x250), and we had to use 2-3-3-8-1T timings even then. (The 3.2V limit of the motherboard was at least partially to blame.) Running at 10x270, we had to drop to DDR333 (CPU/12), which resulted in the RAM running at DDR450 rather than the DDR540 result that would have been required for the normal CPU/10 ratio. However, if we could have selected a CPU/11 ratio, we could have run the RAM at DDR490 and gained a bit more performance. The additional ratios aren't required, but they would be nice to have.
If the last two paragraphs didn't make sense, then you can guess why we don't get additional access to RAM dividers. Experienced users might know how to make use of the settings, but many people would simply get confused; a "Catch-22".
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Powered by AMD - Monday, October 3, 2005 - link
Do not forget The Athlon XP 1700+ 1.5Volts, DLT3C, mines is OC from 1467 Stock to 2250 Mhz and pretty cool with an old Thermaltake Blower...It can ever reach 2450 Mhz but with 1.8 Volts.
hey, at 2250 Mhz its a 53% OC too!!
Great article but it will be useful for me only when I need an Athlon 64 :p
donkeycrock - Monday, October 3, 2005 - link
i noticed that frys is selling x-connect (500 Watts)psu for 25 dollars after rebate. it is extremely heavy, and not many reviews say if they are very good PSU's for overclocking, anybody have knowladge about this PSU.thanks
brad
cryptonomicon - Monday, October 3, 2005 - link
nice article jarred, and you worded the disclaimers perfectly, bravo.and its nice to see those ram comparisons. good to see those results on the latest a64 platform and confirm once again that the ram makes only a few percentage points difference, if that. shelling out all your dough on a good GPU, then buying the lowest model venice, a DFI board, and value ram is the way to go.
Googer - Monday, October 3, 2005 - link
http://www2.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/Down...">AMD Thermal Grease List PDFRupertS - Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - link
Interesting, AMD only recommends thermal grease for short term use 'where the heat sink is removed and attached multiple times over a short period'. They definitely do not recommend it for long term use.StriderGT - Monday, October 3, 2005 - link
Both me, Zebo and many others have clarified long time ago in Anands forum the pointless struggle of purchasing extreme memory parts in Athlon64. Dividers and value ram will do the trick of excellent ocing giving you 95%++ of the performance someone gets with expensive and overvolted ram modules. Nice seeing anandtech come up with an article backing up the threads like this one (http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid...">http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...mp;threa...PS For those owning MSI Neo3 m/bs -and even the rest- I have created back then an excel calculating the actual memory frequency with the various BIOS settings. Enjoy
http://www.geocities.com/gtstrider/">http://www.geocities.com/gtstrider/
JarredWalton - Monday, October 3, 2005 - link
Yeah, I've seen quite a few threads around the 'net on this, but AT hadn't covered it very well, and I hoped to get something "official" out there. (None of the enthusiast sites have really covered this that well, as far as I could see.) Since I've been fooling around with various AMD CPU overclocks for a year now, I figured others might like to see the possibilities. High-end, high-cost is well and good for dreams, but like most people I live a bit closer to reality. $200 is about as much as I'm willing to pay for a CPU in most cases.andyc - Monday, October 3, 2005 - link
So you can basically overclock the 3000 to the same speeds the 3200 can? So it's not even worth it to go with the 3200?JarredWalton - Monday, October 3, 2005 - link
Well, perhaps. 9x300 requires a better motherboard than 10x270, though most boards than can handle 270 MHz CPU bus speeds will also handle 300 I think. For value overclockers, though, I don't think I'd bother spending the extra $50 on the 3200+, no. Spend it on the GPU instead (if you play games).Mogadon - Monday, October 3, 2005 - link
Great article Jarred, thanks for putting in all the hard work and time.I have one question regarding voltages. As I understand it, you wouldn't recommend running a VCore above 1.65V for a long term overclock. I understand the warnings and possible effects on the CPU with running a high VCore but I wanted to know if this is around the VCore that you would run on, say, your overclocked system?
The majority of people on the forums here don't really recommend going above 1.55V or 1.6V, i was wondering if you had any comments about this.