DFI CFX3200-DR: ATI RD580 Tweak Attack
by Wesley Fink on May 8, 2006 12:05 AM EST- Posted in
- Motherboards
Overclocking
| DFI CFX3200-DR Overclocking Testbed |
|
| Processor: | Athlon64 4000+ (2.4GHz, 1MB Cache) |
| CPU Voltage: | 1.425V (default 1.35V) |
| Cooling: | Thermaltake Silent Boost K8 Heatsink/Fan |
| Power Supply: | OCZ Power Stream 520W |
| Memory: | OCZ PC4800* Platinum (Samsung TCCD Memory Chips) *The current equivalent OCZ memory to OCZ PC3200 Platinum Rev. 2 |
| Hard Drive | Hitachi 250GB 7200RPM SATA2 8MB Cache |
| Maximum OC: (Standard Ratio) |
246x12 (5x HT, 2.5-3-3-7) 2952MHz, 2 DIMMs in DC mode (+23% CPU Overclock) |
| Maximum FSB: (Lower Ratio) |
315 x 9 (4x HT, 1T, 2.5-3-4-7) 2835MHz, 2 DIMMs in DC mode (+58% Bus Overclock) |
In most cases current NVIDIA and ATI chipsets need to have Hyper Transport frequency adjusted to 3X around a 300 Clock frequency to keep HT speed around 1000. The RD580 chipset was designed for higher HT speed. We consistently found the DFI board, like the recently tested ASUS A8R32-MVP based on the same RD580 chipset, could easily handle HT speeds in the 1450 to 1550 range. For most overclocking that means that it is not necessary to even adjust the 5X HT setting. It was only where we were exceeding around 1500 (300 Clock Frequency) that we had to drop the HT one notch to 4X. Overclockers should be very happy with this feature of the RD580 chipset.
It was previously reported that the RD580 chipset will not reset an HTT strap or ratio unless you first power down. We had first seen this in other testing of the RD580 Reference board and it was also the case in our review of the ASUS A8R32-MVP. For instance, if you try to set the ratio to 4X (from 5X), the board will not implement the ratio change until you have powered down the system. Engineers at DFI have found a clever way around this issue. They implement a power down and restart as part of the normal reboot sequence. This is very similar to the method used by ASUS and others in getting around the overclock locks on the 925x chipset. We mention this because at first it appeared the board was a very slow booter compared to similar boards. In fact the extra time is for a complete power down and start so BIOS options are properly implemented on boot. The delay might be annoying for frequent reboots, but most enthusiasts spend time getting their systems properly configured and then seldom shut down/reboot. An extra 5-10 second delay before hours of computer use isn't something we're concerned about.
The DFI CFX3200-DR required a few special adjustments for overclocks of 300 and beyond. Under "Genie BIOS Setting", "DRAM Configuration" "Max Asynch Latency" should be set to 4.5 to 6 for high overclocks. "Read Preamble Time", just below this setting, should be set to 7 to 10. The Auto setting for both options is too fast on early BIOS revisions, but Auto actually sets these more reasonable figures beginning with the 417 BIOS.
While we did not achieve the highest overclocks ever with the DFI CFX3200-DR, we suspect we could have achieved anything with this board if we had the weeks to invest in testing and tweaking the huge array of adjustments that are available. We were frankly overwhelmed by the array of adjustments as already mentioned in the Features discussion. It is wonderful to have such fine levels of control if you need and want it, but it is quite another to be forced to master these control levels to achieve maximum overclocks on this board.
The DFI BIOS really needs auto settings that work for the majority of situations with finer levels of control available if you want them. In many areas "Auto" is fine on the CFX3200-DR, but in other areas Auto is too aggressive or too related to a specific memory or CPU. It will likely take a few more BIOS revisions before the DFI will be a good board for both the budding overclocker and the veteran computer enthusiast. Overclocking has been part of computers for most of the AT staff since the Celeron 300 days or even earlier. However, the DFI adjustments are more than we will ever use and far too difficult to test and master. After complaining loudly for more OC options on boards, we're a little embarrassed to say this board is too much, but we think it will bring most users, even well-informed users, to psychotic episodes with 32 levels of drive strength, and DQS skew levels of +/- 0 to 255 in 511 levels.
Something for DFI to consider is the mechanism used by Gigabyte. Gigabyte has hidden their advanced BIOS options under special menus that only become visible by pressing Ctrl+F1. While we're not huge fans of that mechanism for normal BIOS adjustments - like basic memory timings - there are definitely options on the CFX3200-DR that could be hidden. It would be nice to get a "regular" BIOS that has adjustments similar to DFI's Infinity line available, and then an "advanced" mode could be used to display the additional options. Our only comment is that the "advanced" mode should be clearly documented within the BIOS, as many people newer to computers are unaware of the Ctrl+F1 feature of Gigabyte boards.
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poohbear - Monday, May 8, 2006 - link
nice mobo and all, but is it really worth $240 usd?! i think that money would be better spent on a decent mobo and the savings on a better vid card.:/cornfedone - Monday, May 8, 2006 - link
WAY too expensive and no tangible performance increase over RD480 mobos.The mobo companies are out to pork consumers with sky high prices for commodity mobos. The RD480/RD580 chipsets are pretty low cost chipsets and the mobo designs less than stellar to say the least. For that Asus, DFI, Sapphire et al are asking outrageous prices for mobos with long lists of problems. None of these mobo companies has delivered a properly functioning mobo, they provide no tech support and they don't listen to their customers. All they do is use the hardware review sites as PIMPS to SHILL products that aren't ready for Prime Time.
With no serial port, only one usable PCI slot, a $200+ price tag, Mickey Mouse board layout design, too many BIOS adjustments that have little or no benefit, lack of quality tech and customer support, etc. the DFI mobo can sit on the shelf until Hell freezes over as far as I am concerned. Anyone willing to pay $200 for a malfunctioning mobo deserves exactly what they get or don't get.
PT Barnum is still alive and flourishing in the mobo industry.
Marlowe - Monday, May 8, 2006 - link
I think the Sapphire PURE Crossfire A9RD580 suffers from the same problems as you mention. Just too many settings in bios to master. I expect you don't have the time to test this motherboard as well? I've actively worked with it to or from in three weeks now.. without even getting the HTT over 290 and get my ram to work at 2,5-3-3 settings :P Also in contrast to DFI, Sapphire has very poor bios and software support :)I might just be a n00b tho! But one should think almost a month of focus should be enough to get a computer working..
Peter - Monday, May 8, 2006 - link
And yet again, we are seeing RAM performance attributed to the chipset - on an AMD64 chipset. Page 5 says:"Optimum tRAS
In past reviews, memory bandwidth tests established that a tRAS setting of 11 or 12 was generally best for nForce2, a tRAS of 10 was optimal for the nForce3 chipset, a tRAS of 7 was optimal for the nForce4/ATI RD480/ULi M1697 chipsets, and a tRAS of 10 produced the best bandwidth on the ULi 1695. The ASUS A8R32-MVP review established that a tRAS setting of 8 produced the highest bandwidth on the RD580 chipset."
Hello? As has been pointed out numerous times with those articles (every time, in fact), and as you certainly know, chipsets on AMD64 platforms do not even connect to the RAM. The CPU does that. Paragraphs like the above quoted are just plain nonsense.
Dear reviewers, are we being thick or are we just stuck too deeply in cut&paste land? You've been dragging this silly mistake along for three years now.
regards,
Peter
JarredWalton - Monday, May 8, 2006 - link
The CPU does indeed house the memory controller, but that doesn't mean the chipset doesn't have an impact on memory timings. The point is that tRAS was tested at varying levels to determine an optimal settings. While nF4, Rx480, and M1697 got best results with tRAS set to 7, M1695 liked 10 and RD580 appears to do best with ~8. Realistically, the difference between tRAS 5 and tRAS 10 in actual applications (i.e. not memory benchmarks) is going to be less than 1 or 2%. However, it's good to be clear that we're using 2-2-2-8-1T timings because those appear to be better overall than 2-2-2-5-1T.Calin - Monday, May 8, 2006 - link
While the memory controller is on the processor (and have very little in common with the chipset), one must note that the chipset will access the memory with different purposes, like DMA (Direct Memory) access from hard drive controllers, or integrated video chipsets needs a lot of bandwidth to the memory. In this, the processor is "left outside" the transfer, and the memory controller on the processor does the copy job.I don't know why different chipsets will favour different tRAS values, but the chipset needs to access the memory controller without intervention from processor
Visual - Monday, May 8, 2006 - link
so this board has drive strength settings for everything and their mother... but is that needed? is it ever useful?if they all default to max anyway, what good is the ability to set it at 31 lower settings?
and its porbably the same with many other options - if they're set to the right value already and have a warning "do not change or your system will puke" in the comments, why do we even have those options?
Calin - Monday, May 8, 2006 - link
Maybe when set at the max value, they create "echo" in other nearby lines (disrupting other signals)JarredWalton - Monday, May 8, 2006 - link
Reaching maximum overclocks - just like fine tuning a typical BIOS - requires a lot of tweaks. Getting top performance from every memory type available using "Auto" settings is not likely to happen. You can discover through trial and error where the "sweet spot" is for your particular RAM, and you might find that it gives you and extra 100-200 MHz.For example, memory skew is mostly (as I understand it) a way of increasing stability. You tweak the memory so that signals are read/sent slightly out of phase with "default", and that can be used to compensate for higher clock speeds. You would end up adjusting skew at various overclock levels to maximize stability. Drive strength is another option for tuning the system to work optimally with your RAM and CPU at various speeds; higher voltages and clock speeds would respond differently to varying drive strengths.
The problem is, finding the optimal values for even one configuration is a trial and error process that can literally take weeks or even months. Do most people need that or even want that? Probably not. For the few that do, they'll probably love this board. That's why Wes says it would be nice to hide the less frequently used options and give them reasonable "Auto" settings. In the extreme, choosing even drive strength and DQS skew while leaving all other settings the same represents 16,744,448 potential settings (three separate drive strengths with 32 potential settings, and 511 skew settings).
The good news is that there are people out there with a better understanding of the low level details that are writing guides to help others optimize performance without testing every setting.
Clauzii - Monday, May 8, 2006 - link
It looks like CrossFire is becoming a potent and competitive subject, despite what a lot of people said a year ago, and with this board from DFI, it looks like the future is indeed bright for people who want´s ATI Crossfire or thought they didn´t.It also looks that DFI has indeed become a star in the motherboard market - especially when the outdated SATA chips get a trip to the eternal outer space silicon fields - and gets an 600 injection.
To me it also seems that these boards must be near rocksolid, since I don´t see any mentions of strange behavior - nice.
Crossfire software (CCC and the horror that belongs to it!) needs to be solved by ATI as soon as possible!! as it looks to be the only thing holding back on more people getting it.
Thanks for a Nice and pretty well written article :)