The New Theater 650 TV Tuner Solution from ATI
by Josh Venning on June 14, 2006 4:00 AM EST- Posted in
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Final Words
One thing many people commented on in our DualTV MCE article was the fact that we didn't include a Hauppauge tuner for comparison. We haven't included one in this review either, but we've looked at these cards in the past. To recap, the Hauppauge PVR-250 (and 350) is about the same as the Theater 550 in quality. What you get with a PVR-500 is also going to be similar to the DualTV MCE because of the dual tuner capability.
While software support might be a factor to consider when comparing the DualTV to the Theater 650, for the most part both of these cards work with a variety of TV applications, even though the DualTV is marketed more towards those with Windows MCE. The actual size of these cards might also be a factor for those with small cases, as the DualTV is double the height of the Theater 650 (and 550); however, the DualTV is still shorter than most GPUs.
Overall, the ATI Theater 650 does seem to provide better image quality than the NVIDIA DualTV MCE due to ATI's advancements in things like 3D comb filters, noise reduction, and edge enhancement. We would even say that the Theater 550 comes out ahead of the DualTV in some tests, and in terms of image quality they're about a tie (along with the Hauppauge PVR-250/350/500). The fact that the Theater 650 has support for DTV also gives it an edge over the others, and we also like the added control over things like sharpness and filters that ATI has provided with the new multimedia software.
The 650 will be available sometime in July according to ATI, and unfortunately we aren't sure what the final price will be. The NVIDIA DualTV MCE is still currently only available on the NVIDIA website for $169, while the Theater 550 has gone down in price slightly to around $70. Of course the price of the Theater 650 will be a big factor in the overall desirability of the card, so we will have to wait and see before we can completely assess its value. It would seem to us that a price of $90 to $100 would not be unreasonable for a card of this type with this feature set (i.e. DTV). Things like software bundle and remote control may change the package price somewhat, but this would be a fair price for the card itself in our opinion.
Taking everything into account, there are a lot of positives about the Theater 650. With all of the new features and enhancements, it looks to be the best TV tuner solution right now in terms of image quality. It's true that it doesn't have dual tuner capabilities like the DualTV MCE or Hauppauge PVR-500, but with two Theater 650s in your system not only would you achieve the dual TV ability, but you would also get higher image quality at the same time. This would of course require more space in your system and probably draw a bit more power, and you also need to make sure you have a motherboard with two available PCI slots (CrossFire/SLI users with dual slot GPUs need not apply), but for those serious about a home theater PC setup this should be possible.
The Theater 650 Pro may indeed be the best quality analog TV Tuner when it becomes available, but we have to bear in mind that this is still a growing technology, and cards like these still can't compete in all areas with a digital cable/satellite box hooked into your TV. Hopefully this will change when we see retail availability of CableCard products. With their introduction it's likely that tuner cards like the Theater 650 Pro and its successors may become even more important. If we are to believe all the convergence hype we've seen come and go, eventually we may replace all of our home entertainment needs with a PC. In the future, we expect to see real consumer electronic quality available on the desktop. Until such products become available, this card will be the card of choice for those users looking for the best TV tuner card for their computer/home theater setup, and we applaud ATI for the advancements they have made.
One thing many people commented on in our DualTV MCE article was the fact that we didn't include a Hauppauge tuner for comparison. We haven't included one in this review either, but we've looked at these cards in the past. To recap, the Hauppauge PVR-250 (and 350) is about the same as the Theater 550 in quality. What you get with a PVR-500 is also going to be similar to the DualTV MCE because of the dual tuner capability.
While software support might be a factor to consider when comparing the DualTV to the Theater 650, for the most part both of these cards work with a variety of TV applications, even though the DualTV is marketed more towards those with Windows MCE. The actual size of these cards might also be a factor for those with small cases, as the DualTV is double the height of the Theater 650 (and 550); however, the DualTV is still shorter than most GPUs.
Overall, the ATI Theater 650 does seem to provide better image quality than the NVIDIA DualTV MCE due to ATI's advancements in things like 3D comb filters, noise reduction, and edge enhancement. We would even say that the Theater 550 comes out ahead of the DualTV in some tests, and in terms of image quality they're about a tie (along with the Hauppauge PVR-250/350/500). The fact that the Theater 650 has support for DTV also gives it an edge over the others, and we also like the added control over things like sharpness and filters that ATI has provided with the new multimedia software.
The 650 will be available sometime in July according to ATI, and unfortunately we aren't sure what the final price will be. The NVIDIA DualTV MCE is still currently only available on the NVIDIA website for $169, while the Theater 550 has gone down in price slightly to around $70. Of course the price of the Theater 650 will be a big factor in the overall desirability of the card, so we will have to wait and see before we can completely assess its value. It would seem to us that a price of $90 to $100 would not be unreasonable for a card of this type with this feature set (i.e. DTV). Things like software bundle and remote control may change the package price somewhat, but this would be a fair price for the card itself in our opinion.
Taking everything into account, there are a lot of positives about the Theater 650. With all of the new features and enhancements, it looks to be the best TV tuner solution right now in terms of image quality. It's true that it doesn't have dual tuner capabilities like the DualTV MCE or Hauppauge PVR-500, but with two Theater 650s in your system not only would you achieve the dual TV ability, but you would also get higher image quality at the same time. This would of course require more space in your system and probably draw a bit more power, and you also need to make sure you have a motherboard with two available PCI slots (CrossFire/SLI users with dual slot GPUs need not apply), but for those serious about a home theater PC setup this should be possible.
The Theater 650 Pro may indeed be the best quality analog TV Tuner when it becomes available, but we have to bear in mind that this is still a growing technology, and cards like these still can't compete in all areas with a digital cable/satellite box hooked into your TV. Hopefully this will change when we see retail availability of CableCard products. With their introduction it's likely that tuner cards like the Theater 650 Pro and its successors may become even more important. If we are to believe all the convergence hype we've seen come and go, eventually we may replace all of our home entertainment needs with a PC. In the future, we expect to see real consumer electronic quality available on the desktop. Until such products become available, this card will be the card of choice for those users looking for the best TV tuner card for their computer/home theater setup, and we applaud ATI for the advancements they have made.
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BigLan - Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - link
htpcnews.com and thegreenbutton.com would be two good places to start. There's no card available in the US that can tune a satelite signal directly - they all rely on the set top box connected via s-video. Any of the cards reviewed here, or the Hauppauge PVR series will be able to handle that task.vailr - Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - link
I'm using a TV Wonder Pro, which has much less tuning lag time than the 2 seconds shown for the Theater 650. Maybe: mention alternate choices for those wanting a TV card with less tuning lag time. An exhaustive TV card review would include ALL the various ATI cards, the Hauppauge cards, Avermedia, MSI, nVidia, and several of the high-end HDTV cards, such as the Fusion HDTV. (Some are designed to only work with Windows MCE). There's even a "Linux-only" TV card available. Suggestion: Maybe, partner with Newegg, and do a mini comparison review of every TV tuner card available thru them? And ending with an "Editor's choice" TV card.pjladyfox - Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - link
I'm going to second this idea. A nice TV Tuner card roundup, covering ALL, available cards thru Newegg would be something I'm sure a lot of people would be interested in; possibly even asking for suggestions on questions to focus on for such a roundup.darkfoon - Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - link
Thirding.I have a hauppauge WinTV 250, although I wish I had something that gives me more control over the denoising aspects, or does better denoising (My signal quality is entirely dependant on whether Comcast feels like screwing its standard Basic customers on any given day)
I'd really like an article that compares even cards that I don't know about; cards that could better suit my needs.
pjladyfox - Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - link
I usually look forward to reviews posted on Anandtech due to the depth and detail provided but this one has got to be the worst one I've seen to date. Here's just a sample of questions and details that should have been covered:a. Why was there no mention and/or details given in regards to the DRM hardware that has been mentioned in the press release?
b. Why was this card not paired onto a system using a X1600-series video card to test the AVIVO integration?
c. Why was there no details given about the Catalyst Media Center beyond just it being a footnote?
d. Why was there no details given about other PVR software, such as BeyondTV, support being available?
e. Why was there no details given in regards to capturing from other sources, such as VCR's, from the review?
f. Why was there no details given in regards to the MPEG-4 hardware utilization during the CPU testing?
I mean, Goddess, I could go on and on about just what was missing from this article but I'm sure many more will ask the same question; was this truely a review or just a PR article?
SHSPVR - Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - link
bad news I found out that the 650 dosen't have a hardware trasoncoder it using ref to Soft Avivo Video Converter so there for MPEG4, DivX, WMV9, H.264 it done in REALtime Hardware
SHSPVR - Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - link
Done there not edit post buttonbad news I found out that the 650 dosen't have a hardware trasoncoder it using ref to Soft Avivo Video Converter so there for MPEG4, DivX, WMV9, H.264 it not done in REALtime Hardware
pjladyfox - Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - link
Pardon my language but WTF?! Then how the heck are they able to say that they are Microsoft Vista premium logo ready??Here is a snip from a Dailytech article at http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2842">http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2842:
----------------------------
The following are requirements for Windows Vista Premium logo-compliant PC and will be mandated by June 1st, 2007:
* Must have H.264 hardware decoding
* Must have HDCP
* Must support multi-monitor support
* Must have HD audio
* Must have HD audio jack presence detection
* Must have Serial ATA 2.5
* Must have minimum of 50MB NV cache on hybrid HD's with at least 8MB/sec write 16MB/sec read (for mobile only)
* Must support booting from USB flash drives
* Must have Windows Vista Green Button on all remotes
* Must have Green Driver Quality Rating (DQR)
o Green score of 7 to 9
o Yellow score of 4 o 6
o Red score of 1 to 3
----------------------------
I'm really starting to re-considering the Happauge cards at this point. -_-
SHSPVR - Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - link
I guest you didn't read it very well hardware decoding is not the same as hardware encodingLoneWolf15 - Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - link
Mod parent up. He hits every piece of constructive criticism for this article dead on.Good to know about the product, and that Anandtech listens and improves (the nVidia DualTV article was worse) but so much important information was left out of this one.
If the information wasn't available at the time, then Anandtech either should have waited to do the article, or made very clear that this was a very early preview. After owning several ATI TV tuners myself, I know what every ATI xxWonder owner knows --don't buy one until you've heard from others how their Multimedia Center software works, and whether the kinks are worked out. ATI's had a lot of nagging bugs with this software and Anandtech didn't even cover this ground. Add to that the issue of the DRM hardware, quite possibly THE single most important factor in whether Anandtech readers might buy this card or not, and hardly any mention of support under non-MCE Windows versions or third-party products (those that most of us would if we found that Catalyst Media Center sucked) and this article is mostly sizzle, very little steak.