Apple's Mac Pro - Upgrading CPUs, Memory & Running XP
by Anand Lal Shimpi on September 12, 2006 1:51 AM EST- Posted in
- Mac
Final Words
As a computer running OS X, the Mac Pro is the best you can get, but even as a PC the Mac Pro is extremely competitive. For most tasks under Windows XP, the Mac Pro performs much like a similarly clocked Core 2 processor despite having a faster FSB and more cores. If you're running applications that are particularly well threaded, then a four core Mac Pro will obviously have an advantage over a single socket dual core system under any OS. It's particularly in latency sensitive applications such as audio/video encoding and 3D games that the Mac Pro's FB-DIMM memory subsystem really holds it back.
For gaming, before we can even begin to complain about performance, there's the issue of not being able to use cheaper and more readily available PC video cards in the Mac Pro (yet). If you're looking to the Mac Pro as the perfect hybrid OS X/gaming PC, you're either going to have to configure it with a Quadro FX 4500 or an X1900 XT, or wait for the first PC video card hacks to become available for this machine to be a real gaming PC. If and when the latter does happen, the Mac Pro truly could solve the age old problem of not being able to both work and play on your Mac. The FB-DIMM performance penalty in games is noticeable, but with a fast enough GPU it will still be a more cost effective option than buying a Mac Pro and a high end PC for gaming.
If you're not particularly interested in gaming, then the Mac Pro in its base configuration is ready to go and be one of the fastest desktop PCs money can buy. The impact of its FB-DIMMs is much lower in the majority of non encoding/gaming applications we ran, which means that for the handful of applications you need to run in XP the Mac Pro will perform just fine. While our hearts still yearn for a Core 2 based Mac, the Mac Pro will suffice as a good performer regardless of OS and application.
It is still worth noting that if Apple were to release a Core 2 (Conroe/Kentsfield) based Mac similar to the Mac Pro, it could end up outperforming the Mac Pro by being able to use regular DDR2 memory. The Intel 5000X chipset and its FB-DIMM memory are really designed for multi-user server and high end workstation workloads, where large amounts of simultaneous reads/writes are able to mask much of the latency penalty of FB-DIMMs. The problem is that the Mac Pro is the only high end desktop Apple offers without an integrated display, so inevitably it's going to attract a lot of users whose usage models aren't best serviced by the Intel 5000X chipset.
The upgrade path offered by the Mac Pro is particularly interesting, not because Macs weren't upgradable in the past (since they were) but because upgrades have never been so readily available. And based on our initial testing, it's looking like you'll be able to drop in a pair of Clovertowns and make the move from four to eight cores in the Mac Pro by the year's end. The combination of excellent OS X performance, good Windows XP performance and a more interesting CPU upgrade path than any prior Mac makes the Mac Pro particularly interesting. While many were worried that Apple's move to Intel would make the Mac more generic, it has simply made the Mac Pro more versatile and desirable.
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Calin - Tuesday, September 12, 2006 - link
Assuming you want a workstation capable of accessing 16GB of RAM (and using two processors), your options are a bit more reduced. There was an article on Anandtech, and the Mac Pro (the most expensive) was just a couple of hundred dollars more expensive than the sum of its components (and operating system I think).tuteja1986 - Tuesday, September 12, 2006 - link
Intel Xeon 5150 2.66Ghz1GB PC2-5300 DDR2
250GB 7200RPM Sata-II
16x DVDRW
7300GT
Good Looking Case
Server Mobo
Mac OS
$2499
vs
Intel Xeon 5150 2.66Ghz $729
3x 250GB Western Digital in raid 5 $65 each = $195
Pionere 110D = $50
7900GT $260
2x 1GBx2 OCZ PC2-5300 $200 each = $400
TYAN S5370G2NR-RS Dual Socket 771 Intel 5000V SSI CEB Server Motherboard $319 supports 16GB ram
Cool Master Stacker $154
Rosewill RP600V2-S-SL 600W SLI Ready $70
Linux OS , Microsoft Windows XP Professional X64 Edition Single Pack $139
$2316
I know what i will pick :!
grtgrfx - Monday, December 21, 2009 - link
And which one will run cooler and be completely silent when you push it? Ah, the Mac will. High quality build, excellent components, superior GUI: $2,500. Peace and quiet while working: priceless.Nimbo - Tuesday, September 12, 2006 - link
Anand did compare prices in its second article about Mac prohttp://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2816&p...">http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2816&p...
Mac Pro: $2499
Dell equivalent: $3110
Home Built: $2390
tuteja1986 - Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - link
MAC PRO $2499
Two 2.66GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon
1GB (2 x 512MB)
250GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT 256MB (single-link DVI/dual-link DVI)
One 16x SuperDrive
Apple Keyboard and Mighty Mouse - U.S. English
Mac OS X - U.S. English
- not include :
Server OSX
Monitor
Modem
Fiber Channel Cards
Wireless Option
Any Apple Software
Or even Apple Care Protection Plan (APP)
Now if your doing loads of Video Editing/encoding.. one Gigabyte ram is crap all and 1 250GB is to little...
Two 2.66GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon
4GB (4 x 1GB)
500GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
500GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
500GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB (2 x dual-link DVI)
One 16x SuperDrive
Apple Wireless Keyboard and Apple wireless Mighty Mouse - U.S. English
Mac OS X - U.S. English
$4,909.00
- not include :
Server OSX
Monitor
Modem
Fiber Channel Cards
Wireless Option
Any Apple Software
Or even Apple Care Protection Plan (APP)
At Mac Customize they don't give you a chose of additional 250GB hard drive just 500GB Hard drive
Now Windows/Linux PC is where it shins :
Intel Xeon 5150 Woodcrest $729 : $1458
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000KS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb x3 $189 = $567
HIS/Sapphire/Asus Radeon X1900XT 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 CrossFire Video Card - $300-$320 could way more cheaper with rebate
NEC/LG/Sony/Lite-on 16X DVD±R DVD Burner Beige IDE Model ND-3550A $30
hermaltake Armor Series VA8000BWS Black Computer Case - Retail $149
Rosewill RP600V2-S-SL 600W SLI Ready $70
Logitech Cordless DesktopS Keyboard Mouse $58
Creative Sound Blaster $40
Windows XP PRO 64bit $139
TYAN S5370G2NR-RS Dual Socket 771 Intel 5000V SSI CEB Server Motherboard $320
Crucial Technology 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 FB-DIMM DDR2 667 $170 x 4 = $680
$3811USD
tech010101x - Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - link
You do realize that the Mac Pro comes with all the drive sleds... you can add the WD5000KS drives yourself later. You can also add memory yourself.Doing it this way... ordering the Mac Pro with 2 x 512MB RAM and 1 500GB drive costs: $3009.
Add in the RAM you quote: 4 DIMMS at $680 + 2 WD5000KS at $189 @ = $4067
Total difference then is a mere $256.
You are still missing firewire 400 and 800 and firewire target disk mode.
The power supply in the Mac Pro is much beefier.
Windows XP 64 bit is a mess.
And then we get to the fact that you are comparing a retail price to a non-retail price, comparing a bunch of parts to a fully assembled system, and you are leaving out the shipping issue altogether. Certainly, it is possible to pay $4,909 + tax for the Mac Pro. It is also very possible to pay far less.
The arguments in this regard are less about Apple and more about homebuilt vs. Tier 1 vendor. You might as well be comparing against IBM Intellistations, Sun Ultra 40's, or HP xw8400's. You'd appreciate it not being a homebuilt when you have to manage many of these over time.
A 5% discount on the base system + the extra RAM and drives added later is $3917, or $106 difference. I usually get bigger discounts than that 5% on systems like this.
In the end, if you aren't interested in using Mac OS X at all, the Mac Pro is probably not for you. It is the complete suite... from the hardware (including the nice boot menu, target disk mode, etc), the software (Mac OS X, iLife, platform user experience, etc.), solutions integration (Xsan costs $999 vs. ADIC StorNext at $4k for SAN filesystems), on through to applications (Final Cut Studio, Shake, etc.).
Calin - Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - link
Windows XP Professional supports two processors (cores) out of the box. Put a Windows 2003, and see where you get...Sunrise089 - Tuesday, September 12, 2006 - link
and even that "home built" price was without a case, OS, or power supply.Calin - Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - link
As for the OS, you could "migrate" your Windows XP - with one small problem - XP is 1-2 processors only, this configuration would have 4 cores...So, add another ... for Windows 2003
JarredWalton - Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - link
Sorry, but that's wrong. XP is 1-2 *sockets* only. XP home will work with a dual core or even quad core CPU just fine, and XP Pro works with all 2S workstation setups without difficulty. Microsoft modified the way they count CPUs when dual core first came out.