Baseline Intel High-End Platform
The baseline Intel platform for this high-end guide falls somewhere between the base and upgraded AMD selections. The storage components are the same as the baseline AMD system, while we went with the faster memory from the upgraded AMD configuration. The reason for this is that Core 2 Duo computers seem to be better capable of utilizing higher bandwidth memory than AM2 systems, not to mention the importance of getting high-quality memory if you plan on overclocking Core 2 platforms using a 1:1 ratio. You can of course choose to stay with the cheaper alternative we listed earlier, and you could also downgrade the CPU to a cheaper model. We've gone the other direction and opted for better performance at a higher price.
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Core 2 Duo motherboards based off the P965 chipset have been getting a lot of the headlines lately, but in many situations the 975X chipset motherboards are still the better performers. You can now get CrossFire support with P965, but it comes with a slight to moderate performance penalty and the price advantage isn't particularly noteworthy. For non-gaming purposes and maximum FSB overclocking, going with the P965 chipset is certainly viable, but for overall versatility we prefer 975X motherboards. MSI's original 975X Core 2 Duo offering had some issues, but they have since released a "PowerUp edition" (also designated v.2) that has turned out to be a great motherboard, ranking right up with the best of the current 975X offerings. Unfortunately, the new revision bears the same model number as the old revision, so pay careful attention to the online vendors to make sure that you are getting the right motherboard. Most of the old models seem to be disappearing now, but a few extra minutes of caution certainly won't hurt.
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For the Core 2 Duo processor, there are a lot of reasonable choices. You can always purchase one of the lower clocked E6300/E6400 processors and then see how far you can overclock it, which will still usually result in CPU performance that's better than anything on the AMD side of the fence. We recommend that path more for the midrange sector, whereas for the baseline high-end Intel platform we have chosen to upgrade to the 4MB L2 cache of the E6600. That also gives you higher clock speeds than the E6400, and with some overclocking you should still be able to easily reach clock speeds above 3 GHz. That means you can get X6800 performance for one third the cost, although X6800 CPUs will
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typically overclock even further. Even without overclocking, though, the E6600 is no slouch and will put up performance numbers that are higher than the AMD FX-62 in the majority of benchmarks. For another $200, you could upgrade to the E6700, but we're content to stick with the E6600 as the basic high-end Intel CPU selection.
The choice of motherboard and chipset also dictates which multi-GPU configuration we can use, so while our baseline AMD system went with NVIDIA GeForce 7900 GTO cards, for the Intel platform we have switched over to ATI X1900 XT/CrossFire cards. Depending on which games you play, NVIDIA will be faster in some areas and ATI will be faster in others, at least when comparing the 7900 GTX with the X1900 XT. Overall, the X1900 CrossFire configuration will be faster than the baseline AMD graphics configuration, often by a reasonable margin. It does however cost $225 more, so ATI isn't the clearly better choice if money is a concern.
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limiter - Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - link
I read an article on Toms or HardOCP (that I can't find now) which said they had problems getting one of their DVD drives to work on a P965 ASUS board, but a lot of what I've read comes from Newegg item comments like these for the ASUS P5B Deluxe:For the ASUS P5W DH Deluxe
I've read some other forum comments about DVD problems on ASUS P965 mobos, but I can't find them right now. If I run across them again I will update. I'm not saying this is a bad motherboard or ASUS is a bad company, and any of this could be user error, unrelated bad hardware, or have been corrected by bios updates. I guess I just get the impression there are more people having issues with memory and DVD burners than usual. Nothing I think needs a too much attention. I am happy to see memory was tested for the article, I look forward to the future article mentioned above on this topic!
JarredWalton - Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - link
Of course, all the boards are using 975X in this guide and not P965. The problem likely stems from the fact that none of the P965 boards have an Intel IDE controller, since ICH8 doesn't provide one. (Stupid... but that's a topic for another day.) Most boards use third-party controllers can order to offer IDE support, and some of the initial BIOS revisions were very flaky in memory and IDE support. Beyond that, I can't think of anything specific that would be causing issues for people.JarredWalton - Monday, October 9, 2006 - link
The RAM and motherboard combinations have all been tested (as far as I'm aware) by Gary Key and/or Wesley Fink. Those choices were made with extensive input from Wes and Gary. That's the major sticking point in terms of compatibility - and P965 memory compatibility has improved a lot with the latest BIOS revisions. However, it should be noted that we strongly recommend setting memory timings (and voltages) manually for most high-end enthusiast systems. The SPD settings should work and allow the systems to POST, but they are not optimal by any means. Hope that helps - Gary or Wes might be able to chime in with specific testing results for the RAM+Mobo, although I think there's an article in the works that will cover that aspect regardless.Missing Ghost - Monday, October 9, 2006 - link
Is there really a good reason to choose AM2 over 939? I think the motherboards for 939 are more mature.JarredWalton - Monday, October 9, 2006 - link
If you're looking to use older components (like existing DDR RAM), 939 is still fine. That's what I still use for my personal system (mostly because I don't have the time to get a full Core 2 Duo up and running, and I likely wouldn't notice the difference in performance for the apps I run most). If you're building a full new system, there's no reason to get 939 anymore.Think DDR2 prices are bad? Take a look at quality DDR - it's no better, and you won't get 1:1 overclocks to DDR-667 or higher with any RAM. $250 or so will get you DDR2-800 that can run faster than any 1:1 overclock on AM2 will need. There will also be no future platforms for DDR (other than budget offerings from maybe SiS or VIA).
Anyway, AM2 launched in a state that was nearly as mature as 939, and it has quickly matched it overall, if not exceeded it. The prices are about the same, AM2 typically hold a 5% advantage in performance over 939 (for equivalent CPU and RAM speeds), and hopefully AMD will do quad cores on AM2 in the future - 939 is now EOL'ed, and DDR is in a similar boat. I believe the last production runs of DDR will complete in early 2007, and then pretty much everything will shift to DDR2 or later RAM production.
mostlyprudent - Monday, October 9, 2006 - link
Wow! You really covered your bases and made it clear that there are still plenty of options out there to choose from. Nicely done, although it leaves little room for discussion.One Guide I would love to see in the future is one that attempts to find the best balance between noise and performance. There are plenty of sites that talk about silencing a PC, but they tend to cripple performance at some level. Anandtech has looked at some components in this respect (i.e. video cards and cases), but it would be great to see the whole package put together. Maybe it's in the context of the best all-purpose PC for those who cannot afford a separate rig for gaming, one for family use, one for an HTPC, a media server, etc.
MadBoris - Monday, October 9, 2006 - link
Glad you guys offered so many alternatives through the guide. I like a reference of what the current best components are in each field, but I end up choosing certain best components. So the alternatives, throughout the guide, were very nice.Thanks for these buyers guides, it will really help alot of people out with core 2 duo upgrades and upcoming next gen GPU's. Thanks alot guys.
Baked - Monday, October 9, 2006 - link
What's with the Ultra High End system w/o a Seasonic or PCP&C PSU?And no loving for the Thermalright Ultra-120? Unlike other companies, Thermalright knows how to innovate instead of just blowing up their products. You can get the Ultra-120 w/ a Yate Loon D12L for less than $55 and it'll perform better if not on par w/ the Scythe Infinity, AND it'll stay attached to the motherboard. You expect people to buy your $65 but you can't come up w/ a better mounting system other than the one used by Intel's retail HSF? Poleeeeeeeese.
JarredWalton - Monday, October 9, 2006 - link
See above comment - the Kingwin has been upgraded to a Seasonic S12-500 now. I should have figured the PSU police would come knocking if I didn't spend at least $100 on a "high-end" PSU. Honestly, if you don't plan on overclocking and adding a lot of extras, the vast majority of 500-600W PSUs will work fine. Some are quieter, some are more efficient, but most will handle a moderately high-end configuration.BTW, I'm typing this on a system configured with:
ASUS A8R32-MVP
Athlon X2 3800+ OC'ed to 2.2GHz (4600+ equivalent)
X1900 XT + X1900 CF GPUs
2x1024MB OCZ DDR-500 3-3-3-8-1T
320GB WD HDD
160GB Samsung HDD (secondary storage)
Pioneer DVR-110D
Antec SLK-3000B case
...And a Kingwin 600W PSU
I bought the Kingwin several months ago on a whim - I needed a PSU fast after an Antec 400W unit failed, and the local shops didn't have a great selection. Note that the Antec PSU was *not* used in this system config! LOL - CrossFire on an Antec? Not for me!
The system is not extremely quiet... but then that's almost impossible with dual X1900 cards. Full load the system stays well under 500W, and I haven't had any issues with stability whatsoever. Upgrading the system to socket AM2 and 7900GTO cards would drop power requirements, so I still fully stand by the original choice of the 600W Kingwin as a reasonable "budget high-end" PSU. Will it fail gracefully if I exceed the limits of the PSU? No idea - I don't intend to find out either. :)
yyrkoon - Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - link
Its not about the brand name Jarred, you can find a reasonable PCP&C PSU, hell, you'll pay more just because of SLI 'certification'. Anyhow, sometimes, someone may want a longer hold time, or want rock solid rails, or possibly better efficiency (although seasonic may have PCP&C beat here, depends on models).You mentioned something about re-branding, however im not so sure thats completely true. 99.9% of all PSUs probably are made in one of 12 plants in China, HOWEVER, parts, support, , and specifications are not always interchangeable.
I didnt see how much your KINGWIN PSU was, but something that hits me as more than slightly funny, is why spend 260 us on a motherboard, 300 + on a CPU, 250-300 on memory, and get cheap on the PSU ? I think you'll find that PCP&C PSUs are more efficient, have a much longer hold time, and should exibit a much more solid rail supply. Lets not forget that PCP&C PSUs are rated at 40C, and not 25C like alot of common PSUs on the market. (not everyone lives where its cold, or even cool.)*shrug*