Upgraded AMD High-End Platform
Our upgraded AMD configuration adds additional performance in many areas over the baseline AMD system. However, the performance improvement gained relative to the price increase is definitely a case of diminishing returns. This is especially true in light of the fact that a similarly priced Intel Core 2 Duo system is going to offer better overall performance, so unless you absolutely refuse to buy Intel it is difficult for us to recommend this particular configuration. We end up targeting the middle of the high-end price range with our upgraded AMD platform: faster in several areas than the baseline Intel configuration we will get to in a moment, but definitely not as fast as the upgraded Intel platform.
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For the motherboard, we have gone ahead and upgraded to an nForce 590 SLI chipset. The base performance offered may not be much better, but the overall better quality of the board is indisputable. DFI's recently launched DFI LANParty UT SLI-M2R/G motherboard includes all of the enthusiast options you could want, along with rock solid performance and superb overclocking. There are competing motherboards for the AM2 platform that come very close to the DFI in overall performance and features, but once we add in price the DFI is currently the best high-end AM2 motherboard available. It features solid electrolyte capacitors that seem to improve overclocking stability, and we have been able to reach higher memory clock speeds with this motherboard than any other motherboard currently available - for any platform. Maximum memory performance isn't necessarily the be-all end-all, but DFI has created a product that should definitely appeal to the AMD enthusiasts.
About the only other alternative for motherboards on AM2 platforms that we haven't mentioned would be something that provides CrossFire support. There are only three RD580 AM2 motherboards currently available, one of which definitely isn't worth considering. The remaining two boards are provided by MSI and ASUS, with the MSI board costing slightly less. If you want to build an AMD CrossFire system rather than going with SLI, either motherboard will do the job admirably.
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Our CPU selection uses the fastest currently shipping AMD processor, the FX-62. This comes with a clock speed of 2.8 GHz and it includes 2x1024K of cache rather than the 2x512K used on most of the other shipping Athlon X2 processors. It's also nice to see that the price has come down from $1000+ to "only" $700; unfortunately that's more money than any Intel chip other than the X6800, with performance roughly equivalent (and slightly lower on average) to the much cheaper E6600. Not to beat a dead horse, but there are definitely better options than an ultra high-end AM2 system these days.
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We upgraded the memory slightly from our baseline recommendation to some DDR2-1000 memory. All of the DDR2-1000 memory that we have tested performs very similarly, and all of it is also able to run at 3-3-3 timings at DDR2-800 with added voltage (typically 2.1V-2.2V). The absolute best DDR2 memory currently available costs quite a bit more than the GeIL Ultra memory we have chosen, so unless you really want speeds over DDR2-1100 this memory probably represents the best compromise between price and maximum clock speeds.
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Our GPU recommendation has been upgraded to the 7900 GTX, which adds quite a bit to the cost without gaining much performance at all if you're willing to try overclocking the GTO cards we mentioned earlier. We could always talk about upgrading to quad SLI, but honestly overall performance, compatibility, and stability is much better with SLI. If you want to purchase a 30" LCD so you can run games at 2560x1600, perhaps quad SLI is worth consideration, but don't be surprised if you run into many compatibility/stability issues if you choose to go that route. We definitely do not recommend quad SLI, and we feel you would be much better off waiting for the next-generation GPUs to become available rather than investing in expensive, flaky, bleeding-edge hardware configurations.
The only other change we've made is to the storage subsystem, where we've doubled the number of hard drives and DVD drives. You certainly don't need to have two hard drives for a top-end computer, but it does give you the ability to run RAID 0 or RAID 1. Even without RAID, performance can be somewhat snappier in Windows by having your swap file and some of your applications on the second hard drive, and of course you do get more storage with two drives instead of one. The dual DVD burners are an extra feature that a lot of people probably will never utilize, but if you do a lot of DVD burning it could prove useful. You could also try purchasing drives from two different manufacturers in order to maximize your media compatibility. While some might be interested in seeing a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD included instead of a standard DVD-RW, the technology is too new for us to recommend right now - that whole bleeding-edge problem again.
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JarredWalton - Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - link
Seasonic makes PC Power and Cooling PSUs as far as I'm aware (I've seen it stated elsewhere, though nothing official from either company), along with Silverstone and a few others I believe. (I wouldn't be surprised if some of the other PSU manufacturers re-rate the power supplies to a higher wattage however.) While I'm sure there are some companies that would ask to get a lower cost PSU manufactured, I don't think anyone going to Seasonic is looking at price as a primary concern. I would wager heavily that the components that go inside a Seasonic PSU are identical to the components they put in a PC Power and Cooling PSU -- after all, once you're using the best components available, there's not much else to do. The only difference is that Seasonic uses 120mm fans these days, whereas PC Power and Cooling still uses 80mm fans I believe. (I know which of those two options I prefer!)In terms of efficiency, all of the high-quality PSUs are going to be 80 to 88%. As far as I understand it, the watt rating is still how much power the PSU can output to components, so basically less efficient PSUs will simply run hotter when outputting the same amount of power, and that the same time they will cost more money because they are consuming more power from the outlet. If that's correct, let's do a quick sample calculation:
75% efficiency with a 300W PC draw:
Wall power: 400W
24/7 Operational Cost: $28.80 per month ($.10 per kilowatt)
Yearly Cost: $345.60
85% efficiency with a 300W PC:
Wall power: 353W
24/7 Operational Cost: $25.42 per month ($.10 per kilowatt)
Yearly Cost: $305.04
Savings per year: $40.56
So yes, you can argue that buying high-efficiency power supply can pay for itself over the course of the year. Not that we're comparing a pretty average (75%) power supply a with a very good (85%) power supply, and we're also assuming 24/7 operation at a relatively high load. A lot of computers, including the basic AMD system, probably average closer to half that much power draw.
Something else worth mentioning is that most high-end power supplies -- the type that are supposed to be capable of outputting 700-1000W for example -- often have much lower efficiency ratings when they aren't being heavily loaded. Some PSU companies will actually tell you the efficiency rating at several different loads. Often, you will find that under moderate load even a high-quality 700 W power supply will only be about 70% efficient.
PC Power and Cooling aren't bad PSUs, but they are definitely overpriced relative to other options. Either the best power supply on the market? I don't personally think so, although they are *one* of the best. Given the choice between a high-quality Fotron Source (700 W model for instance) and the competing Seasonic or PC Power and Cooling model, I'm going to save you $50 and go with Fotron Source.
yyrkoon - Friday, October 13, 2006 - link
Well yeah, the more efficient PSU is going to save you money in a few years, but after a point, that doesnt bother me as much as the Typical PSU being rated at 25C. What does this mean? This means, that if ambient (inside the PC case ) is above 10-15C, your PSU, inside, is going to be over 25C, which means, you're going to be losing power, AND efficency.I dont recall the formula, but lets assume you lose 5% power per 5C over the rated maximum tempurature, and the temp inside the PSU is 30C. This basicly means IF your PSU is rated at 600W @ 25C, at 30C, its actually only capable of 570W maximum (continuous). Now, this may look fairly trivial, however, I'm thinking real world, its actually more than 1% loss per 1C.
Anyhow, it doesnt bother me one bit spending $200 us even on a PSU thats going to take care of my current system, and several afterwards.
yyrkoon - Friday, October 13, 2006 - link
PCP&C Started in a garage in 1981 (ish) in California. How long has Seasonic been around ? If you go to PCP&C's website, you can read an article written about how PCP&C got started, and why the owner/president is so 'anal' about certain issues. Some of which, I agree with.It's possible the plant in China that makes Seasonic PSUs also make PCP&C, but I hardly think they are re-branded. This is how it works, everyone (basicly) has thier PSUs made in China to reduce costs, and maximize profits, if someone TRIED starting a PSU manufactuering plant in the US, they would most likley go bankrupt, before they became noticed. Even the PSU companies CLAIMING to be in Tiawan, are actually just 'store fronts' for the actual part being manufactuered in China.
How do I know this you ask ? I've had a lengthy chat with a friend in person, who worked in the buisness, and described to me how it works. From the conversation, I gathered that PCP&C PSUs ARE designed by the US company, and the company also picks out he parts to be used etc, but everything gets sent over to China, is put together, and sent back to be sold. I suppose its even possible that Seasonic is the middle-man in all of this, but I will just about garuntee that the owner of PCP&C retains the IP for his designs, after all, he started off as an un-known Electronics Engineer, making quieter PSUs, that had longer hold up times for friends, before he got into the buisness (or so he claims, but I've zero reason to doubt the guy on his word here).
The way I see it, SOMEONE puts all the parts together, BUT PCP&C still makes thier own PSUs by design/parts.
Again, let me re-iterate, PSU efficeincy has to do with power lost to heat while converting AC -> DC ;)
BladeVenom - Monday, October 9, 2006 - link
I would rather go with the power supplies that you recommended in you midrange buyer's guide. Kingwin doesn't have a good reputation, and the last review I saw for one of their power supplies would make me hesitant to even use it in a low end PC. http://www.jonnyguru.com/PSU/Absolute600W/">http://www.jonnyguru.com/PSU/Absolute600W/Another thing that suprised me was the Bluegears b-Enspirer. It sounds interesting, but I could only find a couple of short reviews for it. Since you're recommending it, are you going to do a review of it soon?
KorruptioN - Monday, October 9, 2006 - link
Agreed. The Kingwin (based on a Superflower) isn't the best choice available. You guys seemed to pick it out based on the fact that it offered "600 Watts". It doesn't even offer a second PCI-E power connection (according to JonnyGURU's review). Combined with the 30A +12V rating, it isn't good enough for dual-GPU configurations, IMO.Antec's NeoHE 500W (in the later revisions) or one of XClio's modular PSUs are better overall choices, I think.
JarredWalton - Monday, October 9, 2006 - link
I'm quite sure that the Kingwin does have dual PCIe plugs: http://www.kingwin.com/pdut_detail.asp?LineID=&...">Specifications. Perhaps JohnnyGuru got an early revision that was messed up - that happens more often than I'd like with hardware review sites, as we often get product before it's publicly available. Obviously, it's the "low-end" of this roundup, which means part of the choice was made for pricing reasons. I guess I forgot to make my standard disclaimer clearly visible:Fotron Source, Seasonic, Enermax, and a variety of other PSU manufacturers (well, a lot of them are just rebranded Fotron Source or some other OEM design) are good choices that will almost always cost a bit more money. For the baseline AMD model, you certainly don't need a 600W PSU. If you're looking to upgrade in the future and keep the PSU, getting something better is recommended.
That said, I'll pop out the Kingwin and put something else in there. I'm not going to go with PCP&C for the price, that's for certain. They make fine power supplies (well, Seasonic does), but while they warrant a mention on the Ultra configuration, they can't really fit into an ~$2000 budget without having to sacrifice other areas just to accommodate a PSU that's overkill. Hopefully you're all happy with spending $35 more to go from an okay Kingwin 600W to a great Seasonic 500W. :)
KorruptioN - Monday, October 9, 2006 - link
Jarred, you're linking to a different PSU altogether. You are linking to the ABT-600MM, where the original PSU selection in this PC guide was the ABT-600CW. It does look like the specification has been updated to include two 6-pin PCI-E power connections, but that doesn't really change the fact that it doesn't have a lot of juice where it matters the most.Either way, good choice on that Seasonic S12-500. How about the new M12-500? Or is that too much to ask :P
JarredWalton - Monday, October 9, 2006 - link
Ah, then the mistake was yours (well, someone's anyway - whoever linked the JohnnyGury review). The original PSU was indeed the Kingwin Maximum Power ABT-600MM 600W -- I have the spreadsheet right in front of me, and I'm sure it was not the CW version. Figures; people like to get up in arms over PSUs, but then they rarely do anything more than say "OMG it's not a Seasonic/[insert favorite brand]!". You can get the ABT-600MM http://www.xpcgear.com/abt600mm.html">right here - that's the price I used in the original text.Gary Key - Monday, October 9, 2006 - link
Yes, we will be reviewing it in the coming weeks. While not in the same class as the X-FI for gaming, it is better than the on-board solutions while providing just about every option you would want in a HTPC card considering the price.
poohbear - Monday, October 9, 2006 - link
hate to point this out about this whole article, but if price was'nt an issue, wouldnt i just buy something prebuilt from falcon northwest, voodoo pc, or alien ware? im not sure which audience this article caters to, but i doubt they're a DIY audience that follows anandtech.