Baseline Intel High-End Platform
The baseline Intel platform for this high-end guide falls somewhere between the base and upgraded AMD selections. The storage components are the same as the baseline AMD system, while we went with the faster memory from the upgraded AMD configuration. The reason for this is that Core 2 Duo computers seem to be better capable of utilizing higher bandwidth memory than AM2 systems, not to mention the importance of getting high-quality memory if you plan on overclocking Core 2 platforms using a 1:1 ratio. You can of course choose to stay with the cheaper alternative we listed earlier, and you could also downgrade the CPU to a cheaper model. We've gone the other direction and opted for better performance at a higher price.
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Core 2 Duo motherboards based off the P965 chipset have been getting a lot of the headlines lately, but in many situations the 975X chipset motherboards are still the better performers. You can now get CrossFire support with P965, but it comes with a slight to moderate performance penalty and the price advantage isn't particularly noteworthy. For non-gaming purposes and maximum FSB overclocking, going with the P965 chipset is certainly viable, but for overall versatility we prefer 975X motherboards. MSI's original 975X Core 2 Duo offering had some issues, but they have since released a "PowerUp edition" (also designated v.2) that has turned out to be a great motherboard, ranking right up with the best of the current 975X offerings. Unfortunately, the new revision bears the same model number as the old revision, so pay careful attention to the online vendors to make sure that you are getting the right motherboard. Most of the old models seem to be disappearing now, but a few extra minutes of caution certainly won't hurt.
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For the Core 2 Duo processor, there are a lot of reasonable choices. You can always purchase one of the lower clocked E6300/E6400 processors and then see how far you can overclock it, which will still usually result in CPU performance that's better than anything on the AMD side of the fence. We recommend that path more for the midrange sector, whereas for the baseline high-end Intel platform we have chosen to upgrade to the 4MB L2 cache of the E6600. That also gives you higher clock speeds than the E6400, and with some overclocking you should still be able to easily reach clock speeds above 3 GHz. That means you can get X6800 performance for one third the cost, although X6800 CPUs will
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typically overclock even further. Even without overclocking, though, the E6600 is no slouch and will put up performance numbers that are higher than the AMD FX-62 in the majority of benchmarks. For another $200, you could upgrade to the E6700, but we're content to stick with the E6600 as the basic high-end Intel CPU selection.
The choice of motherboard and chipset also dictates which multi-GPU configuration we can use, so while our baseline AMD system went with NVIDIA GeForce 7900 GTO cards, for the Intel platform we have switched over to ATI X1900 XT/CrossFire cards. Depending on which games you play, NVIDIA will be faster in some areas and ATI will be faster in others, at least when comparing the 7900 GTX with the X1900 XT. Overall, the X1900 CrossFire configuration will be faster than the baseline AMD graphics configuration, often by a reasonable margin. It does however cost $225 more, so ATI isn't the clearly better choice if money is a concern.
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JarredWalton - Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - link
Seasonic makes PC Power and Cooling PSUs as far as I'm aware (I've seen it stated elsewhere, though nothing official from either company), along with Silverstone and a few others I believe. (I wouldn't be surprised if some of the other PSU manufacturers re-rate the power supplies to a higher wattage however.) While I'm sure there are some companies that would ask to get a lower cost PSU manufactured, I don't think anyone going to Seasonic is looking at price as a primary concern. I would wager heavily that the components that go inside a Seasonic PSU are identical to the components they put in a PC Power and Cooling PSU -- after all, once you're using the best components available, there's not much else to do. The only difference is that Seasonic uses 120mm fans these days, whereas PC Power and Cooling still uses 80mm fans I believe. (I know which of those two options I prefer!)In terms of efficiency, all of the high-quality PSUs are going to be 80 to 88%. As far as I understand it, the watt rating is still how much power the PSU can output to components, so basically less efficient PSUs will simply run hotter when outputting the same amount of power, and that the same time they will cost more money because they are consuming more power from the outlet. If that's correct, let's do a quick sample calculation:
75% efficiency with a 300W PC draw:
Wall power: 400W
24/7 Operational Cost: $28.80 per month ($.10 per kilowatt)
Yearly Cost: $345.60
85% efficiency with a 300W PC:
Wall power: 353W
24/7 Operational Cost: $25.42 per month ($.10 per kilowatt)
Yearly Cost: $305.04
Savings per year: $40.56
So yes, you can argue that buying high-efficiency power supply can pay for itself over the course of the year. Not that we're comparing a pretty average (75%) power supply a with a very good (85%) power supply, and we're also assuming 24/7 operation at a relatively high load. A lot of computers, including the basic AMD system, probably average closer to half that much power draw.
Something else worth mentioning is that most high-end power supplies -- the type that are supposed to be capable of outputting 700-1000W for example -- often have much lower efficiency ratings when they aren't being heavily loaded. Some PSU companies will actually tell you the efficiency rating at several different loads. Often, you will find that under moderate load even a high-quality 700 W power supply will only be about 70% efficient.
PC Power and Cooling aren't bad PSUs, but they are definitely overpriced relative to other options. Either the best power supply on the market? I don't personally think so, although they are *one* of the best. Given the choice between a high-quality Fotron Source (700 W model for instance) and the competing Seasonic or PC Power and Cooling model, I'm going to save you $50 and go with Fotron Source.
yyrkoon - Friday, October 13, 2006 - link
Well yeah, the more efficient PSU is going to save you money in a few years, but after a point, that doesnt bother me as much as the Typical PSU being rated at 25C. What does this mean? This means, that if ambient (inside the PC case ) is above 10-15C, your PSU, inside, is going to be over 25C, which means, you're going to be losing power, AND efficency.I dont recall the formula, but lets assume you lose 5% power per 5C over the rated maximum tempurature, and the temp inside the PSU is 30C. This basicly means IF your PSU is rated at 600W @ 25C, at 30C, its actually only capable of 570W maximum (continuous). Now, this may look fairly trivial, however, I'm thinking real world, its actually more than 1% loss per 1C.
Anyhow, it doesnt bother me one bit spending $200 us even on a PSU thats going to take care of my current system, and several afterwards.
yyrkoon - Friday, October 13, 2006 - link
PCP&C Started in a garage in 1981 (ish) in California. How long has Seasonic been around ? If you go to PCP&C's website, you can read an article written about how PCP&C got started, and why the owner/president is so 'anal' about certain issues. Some of which, I agree with.It's possible the plant in China that makes Seasonic PSUs also make PCP&C, but I hardly think they are re-branded. This is how it works, everyone (basicly) has thier PSUs made in China to reduce costs, and maximize profits, if someone TRIED starting a PSU manufactuering plant in the US, they would most likley go bankrupt, before they became noticed. Even the PSU companies CLAIMING to be in Tiawan, are actually just 'store fronts' for the actual part being manufactuered in China.
How do I know this you ask ? I've had a lengthy chat with a friend in person, who worked in the buisness, and described to me how it works. From the conversation, I gathered that PCP&C PSUs ARE designed by the US company, and the company also picks out he parts to be used etc, but everything gets sent over to China, is put together, and sent back to be sold. I suppose its even possible that Seasonic is the middle-man in all of this, but I will just about garuntee that the owner of PCP&C retains the IP for his designs, after all, he started off as an un-known Electronics Engineer, making quieter PSUs, that had longer hold up times for friends, before he got into the buisness (or so he claims, but I've zero reason to doubt the guy on his word here).
The way I see it, SOMEONE puts all the parts together, BUT PCP&C still makes thier own PSUs by design/parts.
Again, let me re-iterate, PSU efficeincy has to do with power lost to heat while converting AC -> DC ;)
BladeVenom - Monday, October 9, 2006 - link
I would rather go with the power supplies that you recommended in you midrange buyer's guide. Kingwin doesn't have a good reputation, and the last review I saw for one of their power supplies would make me hesitant to even use it in a low end PC. http://www.jonnyguru.com/PSU/Absolute600W/">http://www.jonnyguru.com/PSU/Absolute600W/Another thing that suprised me was the Bluegears b-Enspirer. It sounds interesting, but I could only find a couple of short reviews for it. Since you're recommending it, are you going to do a review of it soon?
KorruptioN - Monday, October 9, 2006 - link
Agreed. The Kingwin (based on a Superflower) isn't the best choice available. You guys seemed to pick it out based on the fact that it offered "600 Watts". It doesn't even offer a second PCI-E power connection (according to JonnyGURU's review). Combined with the 30A +12V rating, it isn't good enough for dual-GPU configurations, IMO.Antec's NeoHE 500W (in the later revisions) or one of XClio's modular PSUs are better overall choices, I think.
JarredWalton - Monday, October 9, 2006 - link
I'm quite sure that the Kingwin does have dual PCIe plugs: http://www.kingwin.com/pdut_detail.asp?LineID=&...">Specifications. Perhaps JohnnyGuru got an early revision that was messed up - that happens more often than I'd like with hardware review sites, as we often get product before it's publicly available. Obviously, it's the "low-end" of this roundup, which means part of the choice was made for pricing reasons. I guess I forgot to make my standard disclaimer clearly visible:Fotron Source, Seasonic, Enermax, and a variety of other PSU manufacturers (well, a lot of them are just rebranded Fotron Source or some other OEM design) are good choices that will almost always cost a bit more money. For the baseline AMD model, you certainly don't need a 600W PSU. If you're looking to upgrade in the future and keep the PSU, getting something better is recommended.
That said, I'll pop out the Kingwin and put something else in there. I'm not going to go with PCP&C for the price, that's for certain. They make fine power supplies (well, Seasonic does), but while they warrant a mention on the Ultra configuration, they can't really fit into an ~$2000 budget without having to sacrifice other areas just to accommodate a PSU that's overkill. Hopefully you're all happy with spending $35 more to go from an okay Kingwin 600W to a great Seasonic 500W. :)
KorruptioN - Monday, October 9, 2006 - link
Jarred, you're linking to a different PSU altogether. You are linking to the ABT-600MM, where the original PSU selection in this PC guide was the ABT-600CW. It does look like the specification has been updated to include two 6-pin PCI-E power connections, but that doesn't really change the fact that it doesn't have a lot of juice where it matters the most.Either way, good choice on that Seasonic S12-500. How about the new M12-500? Or is that too much to ask :P
JarredWalton - Monday, October 9, 2006 - link
Ah, then the mistake was yours (well, someone's anyway - whoever linked the JohnnyGury review). The original PSU was indeed the Kingwin Maximum Power ABT-600MM 600W -- I have the spreadsheet right in front of me, and I'm sure it was not the CW version. Figures; people like to get up in arms over PSUs, but then they rarely do anything more than say "OMG it's not a Seasonic/[insert favorite brand]!". You can get the ABT-600MM http://www.xpcgear.com/abt600mm.html">right here - that's the price I used in the original text.Gary Key - Monday, October 9, 2006 - link
Yes, we will be reviewing it in the coming weeks. While not in the same class as the X-FI for gaming, it is better than the on-board solutions while providing just about every option you would want in a HTPC card considering the price.
poohbear - Monday, October 9, 2006 - link
hate to point this out about this whole article, but if price was'nt an issue, wouldnt i just buy something prebuilt from falcon northwest, voodoo pc, or alien ware? im not sure which audience this article caters to, but i doubt they're a DIY audience that follows anandtech.