MSI Megabook S271: a Look at AMD's Turion X2
by Jarred Walton on October 16, 2006 12:05 AM EST- Posted in
- Laptops
Closing Thoughts
So there you have it, our first look at a Turion equipped laptop, which also happens to be a dual core Turion X2. Unfortunately for AMD and MSI, the conclusions we can reach are none too surprising. Intel offers better performance at equivalent clock speeds with Core 2 Duo desktop processors versus AMD Athlon X2 processors, and that performance advantage extends to the mobile sector as well. There are a few points in Turion X2's favor, however.
First, it should be less expensive than any of the Core 2 Duo equipped laptops. Second, AMD's low-power state seems to require a bit less power than Intel's low-power state (we would need "identical" configurations to say for sure). Related to the power draw, battery life appears to be slightly better with Turion X2 than with Core 2 Duo, at least if the system is generally idle. The flipped side is that Turion X2 under full load uses more power than Core 2 Duo, so if you intend to run CPU intensive tasks while on battery power it will have less battery life.
Taking a look at the big picture, the MSI S271 and Turion X2 should be more than fast enough for typical business/office use. If you're just looking for a reasonably priced ultraportable laptop and you like the thought of having the extra processor core available when you need it, the MSI S271 should keep you satisfied. That doesn't mean it's better than other options on the market, but it is at least competitive.
We definitely had problems with memory compatibility during our testing, and that can be a problem with just about any laptop currently available. The name brand memory suppliers are usually a safe bet, but in this case it appears that the MSI S271 BIOS is still in need of compatibility tuning. As we mentioned earlier, the whole point of getting a dual core notebook seems to be improved multitasking performance, so having more than 512MB of memory definitely makes sense. In fact, we wouldn't recommend the purchase of any laptop with less than 1GB of memory these days.
If Turion X2 had become available at the beginning of this year, around the same time that Intel launched the Core Duo platform, it would have been much easier to recommend. There are almost certainly areas where Turion X2 would show a performance improvement over Intel Core Duo. If you're trying to decide between a Core Duo laptop and a Turion X2 laptop, overall we would say it's pretty close to a tie, so you should focus on features and other extras that might be important. If you are more concerned with performance, you will either want a better CPU, GPU, or both.
We mentioned in the beginning that the majority of laptops with AMD processors have often been targeted at the budget sector, so they eliminate many higher performance features that people find useful. Unfortunately, that situation doesn't seem to have changed much with the release of Turion X2. While you can certainly find low-end Core Duo notebooks that feature integrated graphics and few expansion options, there are also many midrange and high-end solutions available. The most powerful Turion X2 laptop we can currently find is a 17 inch widescreen model, also from MSI, which includes GeForce Go 7600 graphics: the MSI MS-171772; Compaq and others make similarly equipped notebooks. The good news is that you can find these starting at around $1300, so the price difference is pretty reasonable, although not everyone wants a larger notebook.
In the end, despite the difficulties we initially experienced during benchmarking and testing this laptop, the MSI S271 really isn't that bad. It looks nice, it performs reasonably well, and it's very portable. Battery life is good, and the only real problem we had was memory compatibility. (We also had a problem with the wireless networking, but we would suspect that we caused the issue during our frequent hardware changes.) "Not that bad" is not the same thing as being good, unfortunately.
The internal design could definitely use work, as we don't like having to pry open the system just to install or upgrade memory. The laptop is also clearly a budget dual core model, as most of the components are on the lower end of the performance spectrum. The integrated graphics in particular could present a real performance bottleneck in the next year or so. If you're okay with avoiding 3D applications and sticking with Windows XP rather than upgrading to Windows Vista, then the MSI S271 should suffice. Then again, if you're okay with those limitations, just about any laptop is likely to "suffice". Our overall feeling concerning the MSI S271 is that it is unremarkable.
Taking a look specifically at the Turion X2 lineup, it looks like AMD has a tough road ahead for their mobile sector. They are definitely competitive in terms of battery life and price, but they trail in all our performance benchmarks. (Note that we're talking about CPU benchmarks like 3D rendering and video encoding, which are pretty consistent regardless of chipset and other factors.) The problem AMD faces is the same old story of getting manufacturers to build systems based around their platform rather than an Intel platform. If all the offerings are lower-end budget designs, the market perception can become skewed, when in fact it's as much component choice as CPU that's affecting the results.
How do they convince manufacturers to build higher-spec notebooks using Turion X2 CPUs? In the gaming arena, particularly in laptops, the graphics processor is going to be far more important than the CPU choice, so some midrange Turion X2 offerings with better graphics should be able to offer a pricing advantage while offering similar gaming and battery life performance. All other components being equal, the Core 2 Duo should offer more CPU performance than Turion X2, but both will be GPU limited in virtually any modern 3D game.
Finally, it's worth noting that the slowest Core 2 Duo mobile processor is currently the T5500 (1.66GHz 2MB cache), which is only slightly cheaper than the T7200 (2.00GHz 4MB cache) we tested today in the ASUS A8JS; the fastest Core 2 Duo mobile processors already reach 2.33 GHz, albeit at a much higher cost. Meanwhile, the TL-60 is currently the fastest Turion X2 available, and at present it is priced slightly higher than the T7200 while offering less CPU performance. AMD doesn't really have a truly high-end mobile CPU offering that can compete with a Core 2 Duo T7200 or higher, so that market will continue to belong to the top Intel CPUs (for those that are interested in spending $3000+ on a laptop), but we hope to see more midrange and lower configurations that will be worth considering.
If we were looking to get a low cost dual core laptop right now, we would be far more inclined to go with the HP Compaq nx7400 for $60 more, which includes 1GB of memory and an Intel Core 2 Duo T5600 processor. We're also not sold on the need for dual core CPUs in an ultraportable laptop; sure, you can do it, but most of us would rather have a 14" or larger display if we're talking about a higher performance dual core laptop. If you're after an ultraportable with long battery life, it might actually be advantageous to stick with single core offerings and worry less about CPU performance anyway.
If you want a dual core laptop, we would recommend most people spend a bit more money, as we feel the best designs start at closer to $1500 rather than $1000. If you just want a reasonably fast, inexpensive 12.1" laptop, the MSI S271/MS-1058 is an option to consider, but it has some drawbacks that we've covered in this review. We will have a full review of the ASUS A8JS shortly, and other than the shorter battery life we have found it to be a far more desirable laptop than the MSI S271.
So there you have it, our first look at a Turion equipped laptop, which also happens to be a dual core Turion X2. Unfortunately for AMD and MSI, the conclusions we can reach are none too surprising. Intel offers better performance at equivalent clock speeds with Core 2 Duo desktop processors versus AMD Athlon X2 processors, and that performance advantage extends to the mobile sector as well. There are a few points in Turion X2's favor, however.
First, it should be less expensive than any of the Core 2 Duo equipped laptops. Second, AMD's low-power state seems to require a bit less power than Intel's low-power state (we would need "identical" configurations to say for sure). Related to the power draw, battery life appears to be slightly better with Turion X2 than with Core 2 Duo, at least if the system is generally idle. The flipped side is that Turion X2 under full load uses more power than Core 2 Duo, so if you intend to run CPU intensive tasks while on battery power it will have less battery life.
Taking a look at the big picture, the MSI S271 and Turion X2 should be more than fast enough for typical business/office use. If you're just looking for a reasonably priced ultraportable laptop and you like the thought of having the extra processor core available when you need it, the MSI S271 should keep you satisfied. That doesn't mean it's better than other options on the market, but it is at least competitive.
We definitely had problems with memory compatibility during our testing, and that can be a problem with just about any laptop currently available. The name brand memory suppliers are usually a safe bet, but in this case it appears that the MSI S271 BIOS is still in need of compatibility tuning. As we mentioned earlier, the whole point of getting a dual core notebook seems to be improved multitasking performance, so having more than 512MB of memory definitely makes sense. In fact, we wouldn't recommend the purchase of any laptop with less than 1GB of memory these days.
If Turion X2 had become available at the beginning of this year, around the same time that Intel launched the Core Duo platform, it would have been much easier to recommend. There are almost certainly areas where Turion X2 would show a performance improvement over Intel Core Duo. If you're trying to decide between a Core Duo laptop and a Turion X2 laptop, overall we would say it's pretty close to a tie, so you should focus on features and other extras that might be important. If you are more concerned with performance, you will either want a better CPU, GPU, or both.
We mentioned in the beginning that the majority of laptops with AMD processors have often been targeted at the budget sector, so they eliminate many higher performance features that people find useful. Unfortunately, that situation doesn't seem to have changed much with the release of Turion X2. While you can certainly find low-end Core Duo notebooks that feature integrated graphics and few expansion options, there are also many midrange and high-end solutions available. The most powerful Turion X2 laptop we can currently find is a 17 inch widescreen model, also from MSI, which includes GeForce Go 7600 graphics: the MSI MS-171772; Compaq and others make similarly equipped notebooks. The good news is that you can find these starting at around $1300, so the price difference is pretty reasonable, although not everyone wants a larger notebook.
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| Click to enlarge |
In the end, despite the difficulties we initially experienced during benchmarking and testing this laptop, the MSI S271 really isn't that bad. It looks nice, it performs reasonably well, and it's very portable. Battery life is good, and the only real problem we had was memory compatibility. (We also had a problem with the wireless networking, but we would suspect that we caused the issue during our frequent hardware changes.) "Not that bad" is not the same thing as being good, unfortunately.
The internal design could definitely use work, as we don't like having to pry open the system just to install or upgrade memory. The laptop is also clearly a budget dual core model, as most of the components are on the lower end of the performance spectrum. The integrated graphics in particular could present a real performance bottleneck in the next year or so. If you're okay with avoiding 3D applications and sticking with Windows XP rather than upgrading to Windows Vista, then the MSI S271 should suffice. Then again, if you're okay with those limitations, just about any laptop is likely to "suffice". Our overall feeling concerning the MSI S271 is that it is unremarkable.
Taking a look specifically at the Turion X2 lineup, it looks like AMD has a tough road ahead for their mobile sector. They are definitely competitive in terms of battery life and price, but they trail in all our performance benchmarks. (Note that we're talking about CPU benchmarks like 3D rendering and video encoding, which are pretty consistent regardless of chipset and other factors.) The problem AMD faces is the same old story of getting manufacturers to build systems based around their platform rather than an Intel platform. If all the offerings are lower-end budget designs, the market perception can become skewed, when in fact it's as much component choice as CPU that's affecting the results.
How do they convince manufacturers to build higher-spec notebooks using Turion X2 CPUs? In the gaming arena, particularly in laptops, the graphics processor is going to be far more important than the CPU choice, so some midrange Turion X2 offerings with better graphics should be able to offer a pricing advantage while offering similar gaming and battery life performance. All other components being equal, the Core 2 Duo should offer more CPU performance than Turion X2, but both will be GPU limited in virtually any modern 3D game.
Finally, it's worth noting that the slowest Core 2 Duo mobile processor is currently the T5500 (1.66GHz 2MB cache), which is only slightly cheaper than the T7200 (2.00GHz 4MB cache) we tested today in the ASUS A8JS; the fastest Core 2 Duo mobile processors already reach 2.33 GHz, albeit at a much higher cost. Meanwhile, the TL-60 is currently the fastest Turion X2 available, and at present it is priced slightly higher than the T7200 while offering less CPU performance. AMD doesn't really have a truly high-end mobile CPU offering that can compete with a Core 2 Duo T7200 or higher, so that market will continue to belong to the top Intel CPUs (for those that are interested in spending $3000+ on a laptop), but we hope to see more midrange and lower configurations that will be worth considering.
If we were looking to get a low cost dual core laptop right now, we would be far more inclined to go with the HP Compaq nx7400 for $60 more, which includes 1GB of memory and an Intel Core 2 Duo T5600 processor. We're also not sold on the need for dual core CPUs in an ultraportable laptop; sure, you can do it, but most of us would rather have a 14" or larger display if we're talking about a higher performance dual core laptop. If you're after an ultraportable with long battery life, it might actually be advantageous to stick with single core offerings and worry less about CPU performance anyway.
If you want a dual core laptop, we would recommend most people spend a bit more money, as we feel the best designs start at closer to $1500 rather than $1000. If you just want a reasonably fast, inexpensive 12.1" laptop, the MSI S271/MS-1058 is an option to consider, but it has some drawbacks that we've covered in this review. We will have a full review of the ASUS A8JS shortly, and other than the shorter battery life we have found it to be a far more desirable laptop than the MSI S271.
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JarredWalton - Monday, October 16, 2006 - link
First, the "closed system" as such is not something we would recommend. Dual core with only 512MB of RAM? I already covered that. Second, the system *is* available as a barebones (MSI MS-1058), as I mentioned in the review. Memory compatibility aside, this isn't a great laptop. It's okay.The memory issues are something worth mentioning, even if we got them worked out. Even if everything had worked without issue, the laptop would have still only been okay - there are quite a few competing notebooks in the same price range, and this one fails to stand out from the crowd in any meaningful way.
Furen - Monday, October 16, 2006 - link
Sounds like you had huge memory compatibility problems, though. Personally, I always buy Crucial because when I used to buy other RAM (Kingston, etc), more often than not, I had some sort of memory compatibility problems (probably because I mixed brands but I've never had ANY problems at all with Crucial stuff).DrMrLordX - Monday, October 16, 2006 - link
I know the Core Duo is now an old product that is being replaced by the Core 2 Duo in the mobile sector, but it would have been nice to see the Turion X2 benchmarked against a Core Duo laptop as well. Surely a similarly-configured Core Duo machine exists out there somewhere.IntelUser2000 - Monday, October 16, 2006 - link
One thing is the Core 2 Duo laptop has 7200RPM HDD while the Turion X2 has 5400RPM. It shouldn't impact is greatly but it'll make a difference.IntelUser2000 - Monday, October 16, 2006 - link
Uhh. No. Clearly no. Explanation?? Turion X2 system uses integrated graphics, while Core 2 Duo system uses a powerful video card. Do you guys really think idle power of video card+chipset is equal to chipset alone??
IntelUser2000 - Monday, October 16, 2006 - link
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/hardware/grafik...">http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/hard...hnitt_le...Integrated graphics power is clearly lower than even super low-end discrete. Now on this AT review we are talking about a mid-range part.
Sorry for triple post, but I must get my point across.
Two laptops, each possessed by one of my friends, both a Dell:
Pentium M 765 2.0GHz/533MHz FSB
1GB DDR2-533
120GB 5400RPM HDD
Geforce Go 7800GTX 128MB
15.4 inch wide-screen
70WHr battery
2.5 hour battery life with internet surfing, usage
2. Pentium M 1.6GHz/400MHz FSB/Dothan
512MB DDR2-533
Intel GMA900
60GB 4200RPM HDD
14 inch screen
45WHr battery
3.5 hour battery life with internet surfing, light usage
Is there a reason some high-end laptops are featured with integrated/discrete graphics card option?? You can turn one off?? Cause video cards in laptops suck huge amounts of power.
JarredWalton - Monday, October 16, 2006 - link
There are multiple issues involved with testing comparable laptops. Short of going out and purchasing a laptop, it's very difficult to pull off. At this point, there's not much reason to get a Core Duo notebook instead of a Core 2 Duo notebook, other than price. So we're doing our best to compare laptops that are similar, and we wanted to get this review out the door before it got any older. Obviously, we're still not recommending the MSI S271 over other laptops.In regards to Inteluser2000, he makes several comments. I have now reworded the page on power consumption to clarify a few points. However, not all of his points are entirely valid either. For example:
I don't think he was reading clearly, because I had just explained that at maximum CPU load MSI Turion X2 is consuming MORE power than ASUS Core 2 Duo. In other words, even with integrated graphics versus discrete graphics and with all of the other variables involved (7200 RPM hard drive versus 5400 RPM Drive, 14 inch LCD versus 12.1 inch LCD, etc.), without putting a load on the GPU one would expect the ASUS system to draw more power than the MSI system, and it doesn't. At idle, all of the variables can explain why the ASUS consumes more power, but when I put 100% load on just the CPU Turion X2 clearly requires more power.
I have no idea what he is trying to say with his comment about Dell laptops. Comparing a high-end system with a GeForce Go 7800 GTX to one that uses IGP is far worse than comparing something that uses GeForce Go 7700 to IGP. Different battery sizes, different display sizes, different processors, different hard drives, memory, etc. -- of course they're going to have different results. However, in this case are not drawing any final conclusions about idle power, other than to point out some interesting trends. What I am concluding is that if we were able to isolate just the CPU power use, a Turion X2 TL-60 at 100% load would require a lot more power than a Core 2 Duo T7200 at 100% load.
The ASUS system is there more as a frame of reference, particularly on the power requirements page. I really can't say for certain whether Turion X2 uses more power or less power at idle, but I am positive that it requires more power when it's placed under 100% load. Hope that explains things.
IntelUser2000 - Monday, October 16, 2006 - link
Nonono. I don't care about the load power, I care about your conclusions regarding idle. Even if you don't put load on the GPU, it consumes power. In laptop standards, lots of power. Its not a coincidence some laptop manufacturers put dual video card solutions(integrated/discrete), because they realize discrete cards affect battery life in idle, not just load. What I don't like is the explanation that its the CPU and chipset that contributes to idle power consumption and less battery life at DVD playback, Mobilemark, etc.
Check this out: http://www.trustedreviews.com/article.aspx?page=50...">http://www.trustedreviews.com/article.aspx?page=50...
(Dual GPU machine)
DVD playback
IGP: 164 minutes
Nvidia Geforce Go 6600: 112 minutes
MobileMark 2005 general battery life test
IGP:128 minutes
Geforce Go 6600: 92 minutes
30-40% battery life difference. Looks like video card is quite a big drain on battery life. I bet significant battery life difference between my friend's two system lies in the video card.
This is really a laptop review rather than a CPU review. Of course, due to laptops peculiarity of outperforming one with what looks like similar specifications, the idea of a CPU comparison on a laptop is far-fetched.
JarredWalton - Monday, October 16, 2006 - link
I did reword the rest of the page in regards to power use. I have used an ASUS W5F and found that it used about the same amount of power as the S271 (at idle). It was slightly more, so the remaining conclusions (i.e. Turion X2 in low power mode uses a bit less power) seem to be consistent. Tough to say 100% without nearly identical laptops - and you still have chipset and mobo components that can have an impact.IntelUser2000 - Monday, October 16, 2006 - link
You can find otherwise similar looking laptops that have different power consumption. How did you test out the W5F?? Just dropped in a Core 2 Duo in replacement of Core Duo?
Otherwise nice test.