ATI TV Wonder Digital Cable Tuner: AMD and Dell Bring CableCARD to PCs
by Anand Lal Shimpi on April 3, 2007 11:37 AM EST- Posted in
- GPUs
Performance
Although Dell sent a beefy system for our OCUR evaluation, it turns out that you actually need that sort of a system for decent performance when recording/watching HDTV. To recap, Dell's XPS 410 was configured with an Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 (2.66GHz), 2GB of memory, and two 500GB drives in a RAID 0 configuration.
With two 500GB drives running in RAID 0, the XPS 410 left us with just under 1TB of total storage. While Vista MCE allows you the ability to adjust quality settings for all analog recordings, digital broadcasts can only be recorded in the bitrate it was originally broadcast in. We recorded an hour-long episode of the show 24, broadcast in 720p; the resulting file size was a whopping 4.73GB for a single show. In its default configuration, the 1TB of storage offered by the XPS 410 gave us the ability to record a maximum of 104 hours of HD content.
It sounds like a lot, but once you start factoring in installed applications and games, you almost need a dedicated 500GB or 1TB of storage just for your recorded content. Thankfully, hard drives are cheap, but when even 1TB of space is used up quickly, it's still a concern. The ability to compress the content to some lower bitrate (but still high quality) video standard would be very useful, but performance requirements for even a single HD stream would be very high for real-time encoding. Quad core and even octal core CPUs could change the situation, however.
Much like previous versions of MCE, CPU requirements are also high when it comes to OCUR and Vista MCE. CPU utilization while watching an HD broadcast can easily average 50% of our Core 2 Duo E6700, one of the fastest dual core CPUs currently available; recording used about half of that. Streaming HD content to a single Xbox 360 ate up around 20% of the E6700's available cycles.
Needless to say, you need a good amount of CPU power if you want a single or dual tuner OCUR system to be used for more than just watching HDTV. If you've wanted to know what a quad core CPU could be useful for, here's another very good example.
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n7 - Wednesday, April 4, 2007 - link
I am amazed at how restricted this is.I was looking forward to the day when i could get a tuner capable of high def support to add to my PC.
And now i see that the once again, the consumers are basically getting royally ******.
I'm incredibly disapppointed.
Thanx very much for this article though...does an excellent job of showing just how retarded DRM has become...
Cygni - Tuesday, April 3, 2007 - link
Thank you for this article Anand. When you first reviewed Vista, i asked for a review of its MCE component, to which you replied such an article was comming. I was beginning to think you forgot about writing that article! :DI am in the shrinking majority of non HDTV owners. I have a 32in Sony CRT TV that ive had for at least 10 years. Its still one of the best looking TV's around, in my opinion. I use MCE to function as a recorder so that I dont have to pay a monthly fee to anyone. I feel thats ridiculous. I bought a $50 ATI TV card and with MCE, can do everything a TIVO can, AND save money, AND burn what programing i want and give it to who i want.
I have one big question i wanted to ask, however. Did you try Vista Media Centers multi screen performance? I use Svideo to connect my TV and computer, and i enjoy working on one screen while having MCE going in the other. However, MCE 2k5's performance in this situation is pretty bad, and the MCE team itself admitted that they hadnt thought of this scenario.
feraltoad - Tuesday, April 3, 2007 - link
So let me get this straight the ONLY people that really want OCUR (people with media center PCs) will be the ones that can't get it? WTH! Bad enough you need HDCP monitors and Video cards, but even when you do upgrade everything it still won't be enough until you buy a ready made box (and if you have a HTPC that is used as a Media PC then it is probably DIY). So the people that this things is going to marketed to will be people that 1)Have no idea it exists 2)Don't/Won't want it 3)Apparently will be better served to pay $10 a month to rent something that will "just work". I have a MCE2005 pc, and it looks pretty obvious which way the wind is blowing: HD-DVR here I come.Also, besides a rant I had a question. What if you have ONE HDCP compliant monitor(HDTV) and one non HDCP LCD (that doesn't merit replacement yet). Will it still work and let you play the content on the TV? Or will the non hdcp monitor "break" the compliance and thus the functionality.
thestain - Wednesday, April 4, 2007 - link
AMD's kissing Microsofts rear is a recipe for an american made disaster.Is there no hardware company that is willing to give customers ownership of the hardware they buy anymore??
AMD/Daamit would do better getting the cpus and gpus out that have been delayed and delayed.. or nVidia and Intel will destroy AMD.
Wolfpup - Tuesday, April 3, 2007 - link
That wasn't mentioned in the article. In two years I'll have to get some sort of ATSC replacement for my NTSC-only S2 Tivo.Also-is this for real that you can't burn real DVDs with this setup? I presume that means you can't even copy files to another computer to watch (only stream them to a 360)?
In that case this doesn't work for me. Hope there are more ATSC solutions available by the time I need them...
Smilin - Tuesday, April 3, 2007 - link
Your #1 mistake was activating the card on a different device first. This caused you major problems. The mating of the card to a particular device is not a time-warner only thing. Had you not made this pretty dumb move you wouldn't have had Dell, ATI and Time Warner dancing around like monkeys for so many days.The problem switching between SD and HD is most likely a server issue at the cable company. Unfortunately "that guy" who is smart enough to fix it is so far up the food chain you'll never reach him through the mass of standard techs.
How do I know this? Go check out the Support forums over at Tivo. The problems are everywhere. The series 3 has dual cable cards and guess what? Cable companies give it fits. In every case the cable company will push back and say it's a problem with your device. In every case this turns out not to be true.
I ran into many of the issues you are seeing with my Series 3 Tivo. After like 4 cable cards, 5 trips from techs, pulling my hair until I was bald I finally got "the guy" who said it was merely a server issue on their end. No problems since.
mwales - Tuesday, April 3, 2007 - link
So as a Kubuntu Linux user, on a PC built from parts, and "soon to be owner" of a PS3, I feel a little left out of the party. Seriously, the amount of restrictions for a system to do this is ridiculous and makes me want to vomit.I happen to have a Windows XP running Beyond TV DVR software (it's NTSC only unfortunately). But I'm able to share my media folder and access it from Windows PCs, Linux PCs, and even both XBox systems when they run XBox Media Center. It works FANTASTIC! Even my wife can stream content and watch it on an XBox without any issues or help. Once I get a Creative Vision M, I can easily move my non-DRM files unencumbered to my portable video player. I'm also able to burn DVDs of shows I really enjoyed so I can watch them later on my DVD/DivX player.
DigitalFreak - Tuesday, April 3, 2007 - link
As long as the content providers are allowed to dictate how and where we watch their content, these products will always be a pain in the ass to setup and use.Still waiting on the CES 2006 announced DirecTV / MCE tuners.
michal1980 - Tuesday, April 3, 2007 - link
i'd get that 4000 grand pc if it came with all the techs to help set it up.cable card needs bi-directional support before it gets my vote though.
BPB - Tuesday, April 3, 2007 - link
This article was not at all interesting for me personally. Oh, the tech end of it was, and the fact that AMD/MS/Hollywood/the cable industry can't work well as a group was interesting. But since the technology itself is not available to me unless I buy an expensicve Dell (or equivalent), I really don't care about it. I'll continue to go along using my Cox HD-DVR and be happy. Actually, if I do want to do something like this I'll simply rent a Cox HD cable box and plug it into my ATI 650 based tuner card (which has HD support) or my X1900 AIW (which accepts HD input). So for the price of the Cox rental I can have HD on my PC, and for far less money. Then again, the way MS and the cable industry are going, I can't be sure that would work. Oh well, guess I'll have to continue using the Firewire out on my HD-DVR to copy movies to my wife's notebook, then my desktop. It's a pain, but it's cheap and easy. My dad's new HD-DVR is also a cable modem. I wonder if it can be networked? Wouldn't that be nice?