Scythe Andy Samurai Master vs. Thermaltake MaxOrb
by Wesley Fink on June 4, 2007 5:00 AM EST- Posted in
- Cases/Cooling/PSUs
Scaling of Cooling Performance
The Andy Samurai and MaxOrb were excellent at stock idle and average among top coolers at stock load. However, as overclocks were raised, neither cooler was particularly outstanding in the ability to cool the CPU under stress conditions. To be as fair as possible all overclocking tests were run with the MaxOrb fan at the highest speed. The Scythe Andy Samurai has a fixed speed fan.
At 2.93GHz the retail HSF is running at 41C, compared to 29C with the MaxOrb and Andy Samurai at 29C. This is not the best performance seen in our tests at idle, but it is competitive with the top coolers tested so far. This is a delta of 12C. The delta becomes greater as the overclock increases. At 3.73GHz when idle the retail fan is 56C compared to the MaxOrb at 40 and the Scythe Andy Samurai Master at 41C - a delta of 15C to 16C. The cooling performance of MaxOrb and Andy Samurai are much better than the Intel Retail cooler at idle, but they do not reach the same cooling levels seen in the Thermalright coolers or Tuniq 120. The top Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme, for example is at 33C at the same 3.73GHz, and it is still cooler at 36C at the much higher overclock of 3.94GHz.
Cooling efficiency of the Scythe Andy Samurai Master and Thermalright MaxOrb were compared under load conditions to the retail HSF and other recently tested CPU coolers. Load testing can be very revealing of a cooler's efficiency. A basically flat line, particularly form 3.73GHz upward, indicates the cooler is still in its best cooling range. A line that is increasing rapidly indicates a cooler nearing the end of its ability to cool efficiently. Lines which parallel the best coolers over a range of values are showing similar efficiency slopes.
The MaxOrb and Andy Samurai are both very efficient in cooling in the 2.93GHz to 3.73GHz overclock range. The MaxOrb continues on to a highest overclock of only 3.83GHz, which is well short of the 3.90GHz to 3.94GHz most of the top coolers in our testing have achieved. The Scythe Andy Samurai fares even worse, topping out at just 3.81GHz. Both these coolers cost around $50, which is definitely in the range of the top-of-the-line coolers we have tested. However, neither cooler is really performing any better than some of the $20 to $30 coolers we have tested.
As stated many times, the overclocking abilities of the CPU will vary at the top, depending on the CPU. This particular CPU does higher FSB speeds than any X6800 we have tested, but the 3.9GHz top speed with the Tuniq is pretty average among the X6800 processors we have tested with Tuniq cooling. A few of the other processors tested with the best air coolers reach just over 4 GHz, but the range has been 3.8 to 4.0GHz. Stock cooling generally tops out 200 to 400 MHz lower, depending on the CPU, on the processors tested in our lab. The 3.83 GHz with the Thermalright MaxOrb and 3.81 GHz with the Scythe Andy Samurai Master - both achieved with the cooler fans at their highest levels - are average at best. We would expect premium-priced CPU coolers to perform better.
The Andy Samurai and MaxOrb were excellent at stock idle and average among top coolers at stock load. However, as overclocks were raised, neither cooler was particularly outstanding in the ability to cool the CPU under stress conditions. To be as fair as possible all overclocking tests were run with the MaxOrb fan at the highest speed. The Scythe Andy Samurai has a fixed speed fan.
At 2.93GHz the retail HSF is running at 41C, compared to 29C with the MaxOrb and Andy Samurai at 29C. This is not the best performance seen in our tests at idle, but it is competitive with the top coolers tested so far. This is a delta of 12C. The delta becomes greater as the overclock increases. At 3.73GHz when idle the retail fan is 56C compared to the MaxOrb at 40 and the Scythe Andy Samurai Master at 41C - a delta of 15C to 16C. The cooling performance of MaxOrb and Andy Samurai are much better than the Intel Retail cooler at idle, but they do not reach the same cooling levels seen in the Thermalright coolers or Tuniq 120. The top Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme, for example is at 33C at the same 3.73GHz, and it is still cooler at 36C at the much higher overclock of 3.94GHz.
Cooling efficiency of the Scythe Andy Samurai Master and Thermalright MaxOrb were compared under load conditions to the retail HSF and other recently tested CPU coolers. Load testing can be very revealing of a cooler's efficiency. A basically flat line, particularly form 3.73GHz upward, indicates the cooler is still in its best cooling range. A line that is increasing rapidly indicates a cooler nearing the end of its ability to cool efficiently. Lines which parallel the best coolers over a range of values are showing similar efficiency slopes.
The MaxOrb and Andy Samurai are both very efficient in cooling in the 2.93GHz to 3.73GHz overclock range. The MaxOrb continues on to a highest overclock of only 3.83GHz, which is well short of the 3.90GHz to 3.94GHz most of the top coolers in our testing have achieved. The Scythe Andy Samurai fares even worse, topping out at just 3.81GHz. Both these coolers cost around $50, which is definitely in the range of the top-of-the-line coolers we have tested. However, neither cooler is really performing any better than some of the $20 to $30 coolers we have tested.
As stated many times, the overclocking abilities of the CPU will vary at the top, depending on the CPU. This particular CPU does higher FSB speeds than any X6800 we have tested, but the 3.9GHz top speed with the Tuniq is pretty average among the X6800 processors we have tested with Tuniq cooling. A few of the other processors tested with the best air coolers reach just over 4 GHz, but the range has been 3.8 to 4.0GHz. Stock cooling generally tops out 200 to 400 MHz lower, depending on the CPU, on the processors tested in our lab. The 3.83 GHz with the Thermalright MaxOrb and 3.81 GHz with the Scythe Andy Samurai Master - both achieved with the cooler fans at their highest levels - are average at best. We would expect premium-priced CPU coolers to perform better.
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Wesley Fink - Monday, June 4, 2007 - link
We could change it to embedded, which we used several other times to refer to the MaxOrb fan. We just thought always calling it embedded might get boring ;-)DrMrLordX - Monday, June 4, 2007 - link
The VX recently won a large HSF shootout here:http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=8757&am...">http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=8757&am...
I know you're doing things differently than Hexus, but still . . . why no VX? The Big Typhoon has already been shown to be an outstanding HSF with a high cfm fan (100-110 cfm being the sweet spot). The fact that it's a top-down cooler like the two you've tested here is merely an added bonus for those who own cases with otherwise-poor airflow that can become cooling dynamos with a powerful top-down cooler (thanks to the prevalence of side air ducts/air guides since the P4 days).
Some folks have said the Scythe Andy is better than the Big Typhoon, but without a head-to-head comparison, will we ever know?
wollyka - Tuesday, June 5, 2007 - link
it will be interesting to test also the Big Typhon VX like the OP said..xsilver - Monday, June 4, 2007 - link
the VX design looks a bit dodge because of the very high centre of gravity. with practically a 1kg cooler I dont want that lump of metal falling off and smashing onto a 8800gtx or something!at least with a tuniq style cooler the centre of gravity is much more evenly distributed.
Personally Im thinking about a setup where you can have dual fans but only have the second one kick in when a certain temp. is reached or maximum load is triggered. Besides the thermalrights - which are too expensive imo, is the scythe ninja the best bet?
cujo - Monday, June 4, 2007 - link
if you've used the bt you'll find it doesn't have a high center of gravity at all. it's far ligher than say my old xp90c.i was planning on getting a ultra 120 extreme based on this review but after the spanking he regular ultra 120 got in the hexus review i think i'll stick with my bt.
i've asked at least twice in this comments section for the bt to be included but to no avail. i actually signed up an account just to ask.
the one difference between anandtech and hexus that i think anand does better is use a consistent thermal paste. that's why i'd love to see how the bt performs in anands test environment.
oh and for those who said "ha, they're using an old cpu." those old cpus ran so much hotter than the c2d's we're used to today. i figure it's a better test to use hotter cpus as opposed to modern cpus as those results will transfer over. i don't care how they cool my cpu, i care how they cool a hotter cpu than i will ever have.
how many of us like seeing psu reviews where they test it up to the 500w that each of us would probably max use. no, we want to know how it handles it's full rated spec.
Wesley Fink - Tuesday, June 5, 2007 - link
Since many have requested it, our next cooler review will be the Thermaltake Big Typhoon VX which we just received in the lab. Thanks to Frozen CPU for getting us a review sample so quickly.It is no wonder the review referenced did not get great performance from the Thermalright Ultra-120. We don't understand why, but the tested the Thermalright with a Noctua low-ouput Silent fan. Our top results were with a high output, but quiet Scythe S-Flex SFF21F. Not surprisingly the Noctua tower, using the same Noctua fan appeared about the same place in cooler performance as the Thermalright.
Perhaps this was just an oversight on the reviewers part, but it appears the Thermalright was set up to do less than top performance in that review. Output of the VX is around 90CFM on high speed, our S-Flex is about 64CFM, and the Noctua is either 30CFM or 47CFM depending on which plug was used for the review.
DrMrLordX - Wednesday, June 6, 2007 - link
Sweet. And yes, I did notice that Hexus tested the Ultra-120 with a pretty slow fan. The main advantage of the original Ultra-120, in my opinion, was that it could continue to benefit from more airflow up to (and exceeding) 140-150cfm. Most HSFs stop benefiting from increased airflow at much lower rates. It doesn't make much sense to use the Ultra-120 (or Ultra-120 eXtreme) with such a slow fan.However, Hexus also tested the Big Typhoon VX at half fan speed, which is around 43 cfm. Big Typhoons (and the VX) see notable improvement in performance all the way up to around 100-110 cfm (and 150 cfm will net you another 1C drop in temps . . . joy). So . . . take that however you will.
Also, since you're responding to reader feedback (which is great), have you taken a look at this review here?
http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/DaClan-Rev...">http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware...-Interfa...
This is really very interesting reading, especially in light of the fact that your testers have not found any noticeable difference in TIMs that you've used. Have you considered a high-end TIM shootout of your own?
jkostans - Monday, June 4, 2007 - link
That hexus review doesn't make any sense. They used the thermal paste included with each cooler, rather than a single paste. While this will show out of the box performance, you can't directly compare the coolers to each other. I don't understand the reason for this, I buy my high performance coolers based on how the heat sink performs, not the included paste. I'd like to know who here buys a $60 cooler and doesn't use AS5 or similar paste. I usually like Hexus review too.....DrMrLordX - Tuesday, June 5, 2007 - link
Anandtech does about the same thing that Hexus does. They either use the included paste or bulk silver TIM, depending on whether or not any paste is included with the HSF.Wesley Fink - Tuesday, June 5, 2007 - link
DrMrLordX has correctly stated what we have said in many reviews. Our policy was to use the same quality silver-colored thermal paste if the cooler came with basic white paste of no paste, and the premium stuff if the cooler was supplied with a premium paste. We did this because our testing and experience shows Thermal Paste makes no difference as long as you use a good paste that doesn't dry out, but ig the mfg cared enough to supply the expensive stuff we would use it.We still believe Thermal Paste really doesn't matter, and we only changed to the same paste on each cooler review because we got tired of expalining the truth in every cooler review. Using the same paste just eliminated the questions. No, we will not tell you which paste we used because it is irrelevant. You just need to know we use the same quality paste on every cooler test these days.