Scythe Andy Samurai Master vs. Thermaltake MaxOrb
by Wesley Fink on June 4, 2007 5:00 AM EST- Posted in
- Cases/Cooling/PSUs
Overclocking
As cooling solutions do a better job of keeping the CPU at a lower temperature, it is reasonable to expect the overclocking capabilities of the CPU will increase. In each test of a cooler we measure the highest stable overclock of a standard X6800 processor under the following conditions:
CPU Multiplier: 14x (Stock 11x)
CPU voltage: 1.5875V
FSB Voltage: 1.30V
Memory Voltage: 2.20V
nForce SPP Voltage: 1.5V
nForce MCP Voltage: 1.7V
HT nForce SPP <-> MCP: Auto
Memory is set to Auto timings on the 680i and memory speed is linked to the FSB for the overclocking tests. This removes memory as any kind of impediment to the maximum stable overclock. Linked settings on the 680i are a 1066FSB to a memory speed of DDR2-800. As FSB is raised the linked memory speed increases in proportion. The same processor is used in all cooling tests to ensure comparable results.
The Scythe Andy Samurai Master reached just 3.81 GHz, which is middle of the pack and competitive with the much cheaper Thermalright MST-6775 and the Scythe Katana. The Thermalright MaxOrb barely did better at 3.83 GHz. With most of the better coolers reaching 3.90 to 3.94GHz these results are somewhat disappointing.
Since the Scythe Andy Samurai Master allows easy fan swapping, we did try a number of fans with the cooler. The supplied Scythe fan is only about 50cfm compared to the 90 for the MaxOrb on high. The Scythe S-Flex SFF21F (63.7cfm), the SilenX IXTREMA (72CFM) and the Aero Cool Xtreme Turbine (89.39cfm) were all tested with the Andy Samurai. To our surprise none of the three would allow the Andy Samurai to reach higher than a 3.81GHz overclock. Apparently the close spacing of the fins is optimized for a medium output fan and more airflow just will not improve performance.
One of the arguments for down-facing coolers is that they should cool board components better than the side blowing heatpipe towers. Lower board component temperatures should allow a higher overclock, at least on paper. The unfortunate reality so far, with all the down-facing coolers tested from the Cooler Master GeminII to today's MaxOrb and Andy Samurai Master is that these down-facing coolers just do not cool as well as side-blowing heatpipe towers. Since cost is about the same as the best heatpipe towers we have tested, you really don't get great value with the down-facing designs.
As cooling solutions do a better job of keeping the CPU at a lower temperature, it is reasonable to expect the overclocking capabilities of the CPU will increase. In each test of a cooler we measure the highest stable overclock of a standard X6800 processor under the following conditions:
CPU Multiplier: 14x (Stock 11x)
CPU voltage: 1.5875V
FSB Voltage: 1.30V
Memory Voltage: 2.20V
nForce SPP Voltage: 1.5V
nForce MCP Voltage: 1.7V
HT nForce SPP <-> MCP: Auto
Memory is set to Auto timings on the 680i and memory speed is linked to the FSB for the overclocking tests. This removes memory as any kind of impediment to the maximum stable overclock. Linked settings on the 680i are a 1066FSB to a memory speed of DDR2-800. As FSB is raised the linked memory speed increases in proportion. The same processor is used in all cooling tests to ensure comparable results.
The Scythe Andy Samurai Master reached just 3.81 GHz, which is middle of the pack and competitive with the much cheaper Thermalright MST-6775 and the Scythe Katana. The Thermalright MaxOrb barely did better at 3.83 GHz. With most of the better coolers reaching 3.90 to 3.94GHz these results are somewhat disappointing.
Since the Scythe Andy Samurai Master allows easy fan swapping, we did try a number of fans with the cooler. The supplied Scythe fan is only about 50cfm compared to the 90 for the MaxOrb on high. The Scythe S-Flex SFF21F (63.7cfm), the SilenX IXTREMA (72CFM) and the Aero Cool Xtreme Turbine (89.39cfm) were all tested with the Andy Samurai. To our surprise none of the three would allow the Andy Samurai to reach higher than a 3.81GHz overclock. Apparently the close spacing of the fins is optimized for a medium output fan and more airflow just will not improve performance.
One of the arguments for down-facing coolers is that they should cool board components better than the side blowing heatpipe towers. Lower board component temperatures should allow a higher overclock, at least on paper. The unfortunate reality so far, with all the down-facing coolers tested from the Cooler Master GeminII to today's MaxOrb and Andy Samurai Master is that these down-facing coolers just do not cool as well as side-blowing heatpipe towers. Since cost is about the same as the best heatpipe towers we have tested, you really don't get great value with the down-facing designs.
Facebook
Twitter
RSS
50 Comments
View All Comments
Wesley Fink - Monday, June 4, 2007 - link
We could change it to embedded, which we used several other times to refer to the MaxOrb fan. We just thought always calling it embedded might get boring ;-)DrMrLordX - Monday, June 4, 2007 - link
The VX recently won a large HSF shootout here:http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=8757&am...">http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=8757&am...
I know you're doing things differently than Hexus, but still . . . why no VX? The Big Typhoon has already been shown to be an outstanding HSF with a high cfm fan (100-110 cfm being the sweet spot). The fact that it's a top-down cooler like the two you've tested here is merely an added bonus for those who own cases with otherwise-poor airflow that can become cooling dynamos with a powerful top-down cooler (thanks to the prevalence of side air ducts/air guides since the P4 days).
Some folks have said the Scythe Andy is better than the Big Typhoon, but without a head-to-head comparison, will we ever know?
wollyka - Tuesday, June 5, 2007 - link
it will be interesting to test also the Big Typhon VX like the OP said..xsilver - Monday, June 4, 2007 - link
the VX design looks a bit dodge because of the very high centre of gravity. with practically a 1kg cooler I dont want that lump of metal falling off and smashing onto a 8800gtx or something!at least with a tuniq style cooler the centre of gravity is much more evenly distributed.
Personally Im thinking about a setup where you can have dual fans but only have the second one kick in when a certain temp. is reached or maximum load is triggered. Besides the thermalrights - which are too expensive imo, is the scythe ninja the best bet?
cujo - Monday, June 4, 2007 - link
if you've used the bt you'll find it doesn't have a high center of gravity at all. it's far ligher than say my old xp90c.i was planning on getting a ultra 120 extreme based on this review but after the spanking he regular ultra 120 got in the hexus review i think i'll stick with my bt.
i've asked at least twice in this comments section for the bt to be included but to no avail. i actually signed up an account just to ask.
the one difference between anandtech and hexus that i think anand does better is use a consistent thermal paste. that's why i'd love to see how the bt performs in anands test environment.
oh and for those who said "ha, they're using an old cpu." those old cpus ran so much hotter than the c2d's we're used to today. i figure it's a better test to use hotter cpus as opposed to modern cpus as those results will transfer over. i don't care how they cool my cpu, i care how they cool a hotter cpu than i will ever have.
how many of us like seeing psu reviews where they test it up to the 500w that each of us would probably max use. no, we want to know how it handles it's full rated spec.
Wesley Fink - Tuesday, June 5, 2007 - link
Since many have requested it, our next cooler review will be the Thermaltake Big Typhoon VX which we just received in the lab. Thanks to Frozen CPU for getting us a review sample so quickly.It is no wonder the review referenced did not get great performance from the Thermalright Ultra-120. We don't understand why, but the tested the Thermalright with a Noctua low-ouput Silent fan. Our top results were with a high output, but quiet Scythe S-Flex SFF21F. Not surprisingly the Noctua tower, using the same Noctua fan appeared about the same place in cooler performance as the Thermalright.
Perhaps this was just an oversight on the reviewers part, but it appears the Thermalright was set up to do less than top performance in that review. Output of the VX is around 90CFM on high speed, our S-Flex is about 64CFM, and the Noctua is either 30CFM or 47CFM depending on which plug was used for the review.
DrMrLordX - Wednesday, June 6, 2007 - link
Sweet. And yes, I did notice that Hexus tested the Ultra-120 with a pretty slow fan. The main advantage of the original Ultra-120, in my opinion, was that it could continue to benefit from more airflow up to (and exceeding) 140-150cfm. Most HSFs stop benefiting from increased airflow at much lower rates. It doesn't make much sense to use the Ultra-120 (or Ultra-120 eXtreme) with such a slow fan.However, Hexus also tested the Big Typhoon VX at half fan speed, which is around 43 cfm. Big Typhoons (and the VX) see notable improvement in performance all the way up to around 100-110 cfm (and 150 cfm will net you another 1C drop in temps . . . joy). So . . . take that however you will.
Also, since you're responding to reader feedback (which is great), have you taken a look at this review here?
http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/DaClan-Rev...">http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware...-Interfa...
This is really very interesting reading, especially in light of the fact that your testers have not found any noticeable difference in TIMs that you've used. Have you considered a high-end TIM shootout of your own?
jkostans - Monday, June 4, 2007 - link
That hexus review doesn't make any sense. They used the thermal paste included with each cooler, rather than a single paste. While this will show out of the box performance, you can't directly compare the coolers to each other. I don't understand the reason for this, I buy my high performance coolers based on how the heat sink performs, not the included paste. I'd like to know who here buys a $60 cooler and doesn't use AS5 or similar paste. I usually like Hexus review too.....DrMrLordX - Tuesday, June 5, 2007 - link
Anandtech does about the same thing that Hexus does. They either use the included paste or bulk silver TIM, depending on whether or not any paste is included with the HSF.Wesley Fink - Tuesday, June 5, 2007 - link
DrMrLordX has correctly stated what we have said in many reviews. Our policy was to use the same quality silver-colored thermal paste if the cooler came with basic white paste of no paste, and the premium stuff if the cooler was supplied with a premium paste. We did this because our testing and experience shows Thermal Paste makes no difference as long as you use a good paste that doesn't dry out, but ig the mfg cared enough to supply the expensive stuff we would use it.We still believe Thermal Paste really doesn't matter, and we only changed to the same paste on each cooler review because we got tired of expalining the truth in every cooler review. Using the same paste just eliminated the questions. No, we will not tell you which paste we used because it is irrelevant. You just need to know we use the same quality paste on every cooler test these days.