Additional Testing and Information
Since we had the system for another couple of weeks, we did spend quite a bit more time testing things out. We're not going to bother with listing additional benchmark scores, as most of the updated scores are within a few percent of what we recorded in our initial review. We did discover a few areas that could use some additional tuning, specifically the memory configuration, and overall performance was improved by up to 5% just by tightening the timings and/or increasing the memory speed.
One of the oddities about the test system is that it was shipped with CrossFire 2900 XT 1GB cards. This seems to have been done more as proof that CrossFire is working on the Blackbird rather than for performance reasons. True, it would cost another $200 to upgrade to GeForce 8800 GTX SLI, but if gaming performance is your primary consideration and you're already spending over $5000, we definitely feel NVIDIA currently holds the upper hand. The latest NVIDIA Windows Vista driver release has removed any lingering doubts on this subject, but of course NVIDIA and AMD are both working on their next GPU updates and we may see those sooner rather than later.
We mentioned in the initial review that we had had a few system crashes/lockups. Those only occurred under continuous stress testing for several days, but it's still something that might concern a few people. It appears that HP has decided to ship overclocked QX6850 systems with a 3.33GHz clock speed instead of the 3.67GHz of our test system. While that does represent a 10% loss of performance in CPU intensive tasks, we can verify that even the rare instability issues we encountered went away at the slightly reduced clock speed. A little bit of fine tuning on the part of the end-user would likely allow a final CPU speed of around 3.5GHz while maintaining full stability, though obviously that will vary between CPUs. Increasing the memory voltage to 2.0V (without reducing the overclock) also seemed to help.
For the interested, we also did some quick noise level benchmarking. The difference in the amount of noise the system makes at full load and while idle is very small. Measured one foot from the left side of the case, we recorded 48 dB idle and 51 dB at load. That might seem pretty poor, but that was actually the worst location for noise measurements and objectively the noise levels seemed lower than what you would encounter with a regular air cooled setup. From the front and from the top, noise levels were 44 dB idle and 45 dB at load, so much of the noise seems to come through the ventilation on the left side of the case. Finally, sitting in a chair next to the system at a distance of about 4 feet, we recorded idle/load noise levels of 40/41.5 dB. By no means can this be considered a silent computer, but considering the amount of performance packed into the case the noise levels are very good.
There are a few other points of interest we wanted to touch on before we wrap up. First, Blackbird 002 is not meant to be a static offering. Instead, it will represent the top-of-the-line gaming offering from HP, and it will be updated with new components over time. Besides the aforementioned GPU updates that are almost certain to occur this fall, the CPU and chipset arenas aren't standing still either. HP will configure and ship an AMD based Blackbird starting in November utilizing the Athlon 64 X2 6000+; however, we don't see any point in bothering with such a processor right now. By far the more interesting AMD configuration will be whatever HP provides once Phenom starts shipping, and HP has committed to providing such a configuration.
Another subject that we discussed with Rahul Sood is the nForce 680i SLI ASUS motherboard with CrossFire support. He wouldn't tell us exactly who was responsible (other than that HP/VoodooPC was the driving force), but we can verify that there is a customized BIOS utilized on the motherboard and we were unable to flash a standard ASUS Striker using a copy of the BIOS. Rahul did state that they feel flexibility is one of the more important things about their motherboard selection, and they are evaluating all of the upcoming chipset releases (X38 from Intel and the various new SLI and CrossFire offerings from NVIDIA and AMD). We're fairly confident that whatever chipset they decide to use, they will continue to support both SLI and CrossFire on a single platform. Until we can get AMD and NVIDIA to drop the restrictions and open up things for all dual x16 motherboard offerings, this may represent the best compromise.
Finally, we asked Rahul about what sort of upgrade options they would offer people in the future. One of the benefits of purchasing a VoodooPC is that they will perform any system upgrades for you as long as you own the system. All you have to do is pay for shipping back to VoodooPC, and then pay for the wholesale price of the new hardware. They will upgrade the hardware, swap components as necessary, and clean up the wiring - all "free" of charge. (We're not quite sure about the wholesale pricing, however.) Rahul indicated that they are still trying to work out some sort of upgrade plan for the Blackbird, so if that's something you might find beneficial, keep an eye on the Blackbird website.
Since we had the system for another couple of weeks, we did spend quite a bit more time testing things out. We're not going to bother with listing additional benchmark scores, as most of the updated scores are within a few percent of what we recorded in our initial review. We did discover a few areas that could use some additional tuning, specifically the memory configuration, and overall performance was improved by up to 5% just by tightening the timings and/or increasing the memory speed.
One of the oddities about the test system is that it was shipped with CrossFire 2900 XT 1GB cards. This seems to have been done more as proof that CrossFire is working on the Blackbird rather than for performance reasons. True, it would cost another $200 to upgrade to GeForce 8800 GTX SLI, but if gaming performance is your primary consideration and you're already spending over $5000, we definitely feel NVIDIA currently holds the upper hand. The latest NVIDIA Windows Vista driver release has removed any lingering doubts on this subject, but of course NVIDIA and AMD are both working on their next GPU updates and we may see those sooner rather than later.
We mentioned in the initial review that we had had a few system crashes/lockups. Those only occurred under continuous stress testing for several days, but it's still something that might concern a few people. It appears that HP has decided to ship overclocked QX6850 systems with a 3.33GHz clock speed instead of the 3.67GHz of our test system. While that does represent a 10% loss of performance in CPU intensive tasks, we can verify that even the rare instability issues we encountered went away at the slightly reduced clock speed. A little bit of fine tuning on the part of the end-user would likely allow a final CPU speed of around 3.5GHz while maintaining full stability, though obviously that will vary between CPUs. Increasing the memory voltage to 2.0V (without reducing the overclock) also seemed to help.
For the interested, we also did some quick noise level benchmarking. The difference in the amount of noise the system makes at full load and while idle is very small. Measured one foot from the left side of the case, we recorded 48 dB idle and 51 dB at load. That might seem pretty poor, but that was actually the worst location for noise measurements and objectively the noise levels seemed lower than what you would encounter with a regular air cooled setup. From the front and from the top, noise levels were 44 dB idle and 45 dB at load, so much of the noise seems to come through the ventilation on the left side of the case. Finally, sitting in a chair next to the system at a distance of about 4 feet, we recorded idle/load noise levels of 40/41.5 dB. By no means can this be considered a silent computer, but considering the amount of performance packed into the case the noise levels are very good.
There are a few other points of interest we wanted to touch on before we wrap up. First, Blackbird 002 is not meant to be a static offering. Instead, it will represent the top-of-the-line gaming offering from HP, and it will be updated with new components over time. Besides the aforementioned GPU updates that are almost certain to occur this fall, the CPU and chipset arenas aren't standing still either. HP will configure and ship an AMD based Blackbird starting in November utilizing the Athlon 64 X2 6000+; however, we don't see any point in bothering with such a processor right now. By far the more interesting AMD configuration will be whatever HP provides once Phenom starts shipping, and HP has committed to providing such a configuration.
Another subject that we discussed with Rahul Sood is the nForce 680i SLI ASUS motherboard with CrossFire support. He wouldn't tell us exactly who was responsible (other than that HP/VoodooPC was the driving force), but we can verify that there is a customized BIOS utilized on the motherboard and we were unable to flash a standard ASUS Striker using a copy of the BIOS. Rahul did state that they feel flexibility is one of the more important things about their motherboard selection, and they are evaluating all of the upcoming chipset releases (X38 from Intel and the various new SLI and CrossFire offerings from NVIDIA and AMD). We're fairly confident that whatever chipset they decide to use, they will continue to support both SLI and CrossFire on a single platform. Until we can get AMD and NVIDIA to drop the restrictions and open up things for all dual x16 motherboard offerings, this may represent the best compromise.
Finally, we asked Rahul about what sort of upgrade options they would offer people in the future. One of the benefits of purchasing a VoodooPC is that they will perform any system upgrades for you as long as you own the system. All you have to do is pay for shipping back to VoodooPC, and then pay for the wholesale price of the new hardware. They will upgrade the hardware, swap components as necessary, and clean up the wiring - all "free" of charge. (We're not quite sure about the wholesale pricing, however.) Rahul indicated that they are still trying to work out some sort of upgrade plan for the Blackbird, so if that's something you might find beneficial, keep an eye on the Blackbird website.
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EateryOfPiza - Tuesday, October 2, 2007 - link
that custom bios might be something special, or maybe its a drag on performance.JarredWalton - Tuesday, October 2, 2007 - link
I would be absolutely shocked if performance was more than 3% off with the latest drivers. As it stands, the version of the Blackbird I have for testing has HD 2900 CrossFire, and I think most people would be better off getting 8800 GTX SLI. Even Rahul said, "It's not just about the benchmarks anymore - it's about the experience." Basically, a lot of companies got hung up on oneupmanship, where they would be the "best" in some magazine review, but only by 2%. It's pretty silly, I think.themadmilkman - Tuesday, October 2, 2007 - link
How long until somebody makes a knock-off of the case design? I'd be interested in one.kmmatney - Tuesday, October 2, 2007 - link
One will probably come out of China before the HP one is available...Bonesdad - Tuesday, October 2, 2007 - link
but it might kill your dogOwls - Tuesday, October 2, 2007 - link
I know you are trying to make a comparison to hand built quality but it was a bit over the top. The Duesenberg is a classic and a symbol of craftsmanship in the meantime, cases and parts made in china assembled by hand does not equal classic or "well built" by any means. How many cases have you seen that are "classics" today?Probably none.
good article though :)
strikeback03 - Tuesday, October 2, 2007 - link
I'd imagine the point is that back in the day whoever bought that Duesenberg new was not buying a classic at the time either, just a nice expensive, well built car.psychotix11 - Tuesday, October 2, 2007 - link
I would have thought after the foot-in-mouth "it takes $300 to match or beat air cooling" you guys would have had the tact to leave it alone and accept that you really don't know what you're talking about, but of course you couldn't resist the chance to take another dig at it on your crusade for air cooling, bias at it's finest, tomshardware would be proud of you.That said from what I can see they are using a dual 120mm radiator to cool two ultras and an over clocker quad core, that isn't enough. A dual 120mm rad will cool either an OC'd quad or the dual GPU's, but with both in a single loop it's not going to be enough even if you slap some delta screamers on it and let your ears bleed. You're going to need a triple 120mm for that.
kmmatney - Tuesday, October 2, 2007 - link
rolls eyes...JarredWalton - Tuesday, October 2, 2007 - link
Read what you just wrote: "...they are using a dual 120mm radiator to cool two ultras and an over clocker quad core, that isn't enough. A dual 120mm rad will cool either an OC'd quad or the dual GPU's, but with both in a single loop it's not going to be enough..."Let's talk bias for a second. Suggesting that a $300+ cooling arrangement with dual 120mm fans is not enough cooling and that *more* is required for proper water cooling of this setup illustrates the exact problem. I can get similar results from air cooled GPUs and CPUs for 1/4 the price (on the cooling side of things). Actually, it's even worse on GPUs, as the stock air coolers are "free" and water blocks are just pure expense that may not really even impact performance. Even if a triple-fan WC setup is slightly better in terms of overall cooling, that doesn't make it a great choice. Now read what I *actually* said again:
"We decided to simply skip out on water cooling, as our own testing has been less than stellar and we're finding that top-quality air cooling is still more than sufficient for the vast majority of people."
Yes, that's a terrible slam on water cooling: we find air cooling to be more than sufficient for most people. Or if you want to reverse it, water cooling is really only "necessary" for a very small portion of the market. Just like I specifically recommended AGAINST spending $1100 on a QX6850 and instead chose a Q6600 that will beat the pants off it on price and will overclock nearly as far, I chose air cooling that will cost significantly less and overclock nearly as far. While we're at it, I chose 8800 GTX cards that cost less than the 8800 Ultras and will run nearly as fast. See the pattern?
For the record, the water cooling in the Blackbird does a fine job at keeping the entire system running, and I didn't have any issues with temperatures or escalating noise levels. Without putting a similar setup into the case without water cooling and running benchmarks, I can't say for sure how much of an impact their cooling design has on overall performance and noise levels. However, if I'm building a system for myself or a friend, liquid cooling is just another expense and hassle that I'm going to avoid. I avoid RAID 0 configurations for the same reason.
Water is more complex and creates more concerns (weight, potential for leaks, installation and upgrade time and effort). Is it bad? Nope. Just like a $5500 prebuilt isn't bad, and a factory overclocked system isn't bad. It's still an expense many will bypass.