Post Cards from the Edge - AMD 780G, NVIDIA 790i, Gigabyte 680i
by Gary Key on April 5, 2008 12:00 PM EST- Posted in
- Motherboards
AMD 780G Motherboards
It has been an agonizingly slow process dissecting seven boards and trying to devise a set of benchmarks that satisfy the home theater, casual gaming, and home office crowds all at once. We think our roundup will come close but there are sure to be a few bumps in the road. We await your comments on the upcoming video analysis and roundup articles over the coming days.
However, we almost did not finish our testing (we actually still have some Phenom benchmarks to complete) as we lost four of our seven boards during final benchmark sessions this past week. It very easily could have been seven out of seven, but we stopped the killing spree after verifying why our boards seemed content to go to digital heaven without Kevorkian assistance. We could stop here and say wait for the article, but that would be sensationalist journalism, right?
Our normal course of testing has us installing a wide variety of processors in each board, regardless of the target market. We do this to ensure compatibility, and at times (like now) we wish this was not the case. This week, we tested the 780G boards with the LE1600, 4400+ X2, 4850e X2, 6400+ X2, Phenom 9600BE, Phenom 9900, and now the 9850BE.
We discovered quickly that running the 9900/9850BE or 6400+ X2 on these products resulted in the loss of the board, in a matter of a few seconds to a few minutes. Granted, it will probably be rare that a user will purchase a 9850BE to run on this platform, but in case you were considering that course of action, we highly suggest you do not. Let’s get this out of the way quickly; it is not a 780G chipset problem. In fact, it is not strictly a board problem either, but rather a design issue.
This design issue can just as easily occur on NVIDIA or Intel chipset boards, so while we are talking about the 780G product line, just be aware that it can happen on any board with any chipset. In fact, our last GeForce 8200 has already experienced a painful demise. The design issue comes down to the manufacturer trying to balance performance requirements and costs when providing a product in this market sector. The budget sector is very price sensitive, and for the most part users will typically use a lower-end processor.
The vast majority of the 780G boards have a three-phase or four-phase PWM circuitry design. These designs are completely acceptable for the 45W, 65W, 89W, and 95W TDP rated processors; however, drop in a 125W TDP processor such as the Phenom 9850e or 6400+ X2 and you are asking for trouble. Trouble is exactly we found, as each board we tested eventually succumbed to the greater power requirements of these 125W TDP processors.
The four-phase motherboards held out longer and seemed to run fine at stock speeds for a short period. Trying to overclock these boards even slightly resulted in almost immediate board failure. The three-phase boards did not fare as well since we blew MOSFETS on power-up, or they failed after a short OCCT load. We have returned the failed boards for analysis. However, we are comfortable with our statements after spending the past two days on the phone with the board manufacturers and AMD.
Now for the kicker. Although we were testing with a Phenom processor, that does not mean the manufacturer had qualified the board with this particular CPU. So while those front page ads and marketing information list all the processor families that will theoretically run on a board, users need to read the fine print or search for the suppliers' QVL/CPU support lists to ensure the desired processor has been qualified. We also plan to provide this information in the review process.
We searched each vendor’s website to find out if we were “running” the board out of spec with the 9850BE/9900 processors. What we found was very interesting, and we are having spirited discussions with the motherboard companies and AMD at this time.
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whatthehey - Sunday, April 6, 2008 - link
Hard drives and GPUs and fans have nothing to do with the failures; it's all about overloading the CPU socket power distribution system. Considering Anandtech explicitly mentions the X2 6400+ and the Phenom X4 9900/9850BE, you might be safe. In fact, Mr. Key says something about the Gigabyte board working fine at stock settings with the 9900/9850BE, and it was only "after a short overclocking session" that the board failed.That's pretty critical information for enthusiasts to have. Okay, the board works at stock. +1 to Gigabyte. Even moderate attempts at overclocking on quad-core CPUs could fry the board. -1. That's still better than the other offerings, and I think it's safe to say an X2 6000+ won't stress things as much as the 9850BE. You're probably safe, but don't push things too much unless you don't mind the risk of a dead board.
Or you could try to verify the problem by, say, overclocking and over-volting your CPU a bit. Heh.
building - Sunday, April 6, 2008 - link
Here I am again, a day late and a dollar short.I ordered the EVGA 790i Ultra board 3 days ago. Along with it a raptor 150 and an XFX 9800GX2, and I WAS planning to run vista 64 on it. Thanks for the good honest info in the article. Now I'm wondering if I should just RMA the EVGA board, and stick with th ASUS 680 I'm currently using. My main reasons for upgrading to the 790 were DDR3, and PCI-E 2.0, but if I can run that video card on a PCI-E 1 slot then maybe I'll just stick with the ASUS. DAMN IT!
Good article though, thanks.
n7 - Sunday, April 6, 2008 - link
This article is exactly the sort of honesty i like to see.Over the years, i've become less & less reliant on official reviews, because all too often they skip mentioning the issues (if they even keep eyes open for them at all) & just focus on the postives.
Going into forums to read user experiences tends to be a more reliable way of gathering information these days i find.
But with you Gary, you make an effort to always paint the whole picture, regardless of how ugly that can be.
Again, want to say a big thanx for this.
I've always loved your reviews; & this is such a shining example of why!
just4U - Sunday, April 6, 2008 - link
Looking at this article I keep thinking to myself ... DAMN. I'd go out and pick up a Matx motherboard (if I was so inclined) and pair it up with a powerful cpu in a heartbeat. Never realizing that perhaps I shouldn't do that. It never would occur to me and I'd be surprised as hell when it popped.Killrose - Sunday, April 6, 2008 - link
So what is going to happen to my 690G chipset based AM2 Gigabyte board when I drop a Phenom into it?TrueSport - Sunday, April 6, 2008 - link
at least 4 problems I've experienced with the GA-MA78GM-S2H so far!! :1.) Badly attached Northbridge heatsink, overheated and either system reboot automatically or blue screen. DIY a heatsink solved the problem;
2.) Blue screen OR immediate system reboot when I played movies with PowerDVD v7.3;
3.) Incompatible with the Lite-on drive, LOL!!?, system reboot and reboot when accessing data from it, changed back to the old DVD drive and the problem gone;
4.) not working with the ADATA DDR2 800 memory, maybe it's ADATA's problem.
only problem (4) was solved by BIOS update.
Ages - Sunday, April 6, 2008 - link
Trust & Integrity are two cornerstones that will be found supporting any successful business. At least any successful business that lasts the test of time. If you take away either of the two the business fails.Annandtech has taken a courageous step forward by revealing what is going on behind the scenes. Again they have shown that the "End User" matters most. I sincerely thank you for standing up and telling the truth.
It will be interesting to see if these companies have the integrity to do what is right.
TrueSport - Sunday, April 6, 2008 - link
Well done anandtech!So glad to see you guys speaking up for the truths!
Forever supporting anandtech, especially for Gary Key!
TrueSport - Sunday, April 6, 2008 - link
Well done anantech!So glad to see you guys speaking up for the truths!
Forever supporting anandtech, especially for Gary Key!
R3MF - Sunday, April 6, 2008 - link
who is going to provide the mATX crowd with a decent high-end Phenom motherboard?the whole situation is a disgrace, and i would not recommend AMD to any mATX'er until they sort it out.