Far Cry 2 Dissected: Massive Amounts of Performance Data
by Derek Wilson on November 21, 2008 5:30 AM EST- Posted in
- GPUs
AMD Driver Caveats and Major Open Issues
The issues with AMD's driver and hotfix for Far Cry 2 have been fairly public. The 8.10 driver didn't really deliver on some performance points while the first hotfix had some rendering issues. The next couple hotfixes fixed some things and broke others, and we still don't have a driver from AMD that gives us the results we want. The 8.11 driver only incorporates the final hotfix changes, but we will have to wait until a newer hotfix is released or 8.12 for any hope of a better experience on Far Cry 2 with most AMD hardware.
While people have been talking about the issues, we've spent quite a bit of time looking at this problem (and the AMD driver issues are one of the major reasons this article is as delayed as it is). And we'll lead off with the bottom line: the Radeon HD 4870 1GB is the only AMD card not in some way afflicted, and it also happens to be the card we would recommend for the best single GPU experience on Far Cry 2 at any setting except 2560x1600 with 4xAA. But that is not an excuse for the kind of horrific experience we've had with every single other AMD solution when playing this game.
The stuttering issue people have pointed out with AMD hardware is not an issue with the 1GB part in our experience. The rest of the line up suffers greatly from random hitches that aren't so much stuttering in our tests as they are temporary slow downs. We were also unable to test CrossFire, as CrossFire only works with 4xAA enabled. Even then CrossFire performance is erratic and stutters more than single card solutions (except for with the 4870 X2 or two 1GB 4870 cards that is). We aren't quite sure what the CrossFire issue is, but it seems clear that there is some graphics memory issue somewhere, and not only because of the huge discrepancy between the performance of the 4870 512MB part an the 1GB part.
In our tests, we initially wanted to take the 3 run average for each test. This was not something we could do with AMD hardware as even our benchmark sessions were marred with ridiculous stuttering and slow downs. We would have performance range from 25 to 55 frames per second on any given test. Rather than take the average, we decided to take the highest performance run for NVIDIA and AMD. It is worth noting that most of the performance results for NVIDIA were within less than a frame per second difference, so average versus max performance run isn't that different.
This does mean that our tests paint AMD hardware in a better light than the actual experience will be, at this point in time, with every card except the 4870 1GB. The average FPS data was just not usable as our line graphs looked more like sine waves than anything logical; nothing made any sense at all. Our choice to publish this article now is based on the fact that we absolutely expect AMD to fix their performance issues in Far Cry 2 as soon as possible. Far Cry 2 is a major title and AMD is a major GPU maker: there is simply no excuse for this sort of problem.
So the trade off for going forward with best-case scenario numbers is this page explaining the problems and a plea to AMD to change their approach to driver development for the good of the consumer.
Maintaining a monthly driver release schedule is detrimental to AMD's ability to release quality drivers. This is not the first or only issue we've seen that could have been solved (or at least noticed) by expanded testing that isn't possible with such tight release deadlines. Yes, consistent and frequent driver releases to improve compatibility and performance are a necessity, but doing anything to excess is a very bad idea. Moderation is key and AMD severely needs a better balance here.
We've been mentioning this as an issue in passing when it pops up and causes us problems, but this is starting to get ridiculous. It is one thing when previous fixes are broken or when older games fall off the grid and are neglected. But when a major title like Far Cry 2 is released to incredibly poor driver support, it is time to wake up and realize that something is wrong. This is not the first time we've seen issues with a newly released game, but the problems we've had with AMD drivers and Far Cry 2 are some of the worst we've ever experienced.
And this time it isn't just us. This isn't prerelease hardware or a beta software package. This isn't a quick fix "oops I forgot something" kind of bug. Though we tend to see problems a lot more frequently than end users, we do see a lot more issues with AMD drivers than NVIDIA. Even though not all those issues are things that we need to bother end users with, the probability of hitting a bug that will affect end users is much higher when you've got a higher number of bugs to worry about in general.
Now don't get me wrong, AMD drivers are still much better than they were before Catalyst. Back during the transition to Vista, ATI drivers were hands and feet above NVIDIA drivers for a long time (and they didn't hang XP out to dry either). AMD has maintained a unified driver model where NVIDIA had to break up their driver for different hardware generations for a while.
And now it is time for AMD to learn from their mistakes and change over to a more manageable and sensible driver release policy. Double the time between driver releases, do much much more testing across hardware platforms and games, and maybe even regularly release partly QA'd beta drivers in between WHQL drivers if there's something that needs a quick fix.
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Ephebus - Monday, November 24, 2008 - link
ATI drivers have always been messy, and not just video card drivers. I was unfortunate enough to purchase a motherboard with an ATI chipset, and installing the latest southbridge and RAID drivers from the Catalyst 8.11 suite (which are available as individual packages for motherboards with ATI chipsets) simply removed the option to uninstall the drivers from XP's control panel and also removed the SATA-AHCI support, so now I have to run my HD's in native IDE mode.ATI drivers are so pathetic that you have to install the SATA-AHCI drivers during OS installation and from DISKETTES (I haven't had a diskette drive for years). Most people above the total-mediocre-user-level resort to some registry patch to install AHCI drivers on an already installed OS (or because they don't have a diskette drive), which worked just fine for me, but the latest release messed that up too.
Worst of all was the response I got from AMD's support, telling me to install the drivers from the motherboard's page (which are nothing but the southbridge drivers from a Catalyst release over 1 year old). Fanboys flame on (I used to be one too, since the K6-2), but this company should recognize their inability to develop drivers for their own products and either let someone else write them or go out of the business.
Slash3 - Tuesday, November 25, 2008 - link
AHCI mode requires all vendors install AHCI drivers at the time of installation for XP. Intel, ATI, AMD or otherwise. Yes, you can slipstream them into an install CD if you're lucky, but XP by default requires the use of the A: diskette drive for controller drivers (needed to enable AHCI or RAID mode). Vista allows the use of USB devices for drivers, and is preconfigured with more out of the gate.Ephebus - Tuesday, November 25, 2008 - link
You forgot NVIDIA. Installers for their chipset drivers are able to install RAID and AHCI drivers on existing XP installations. My previous motherboard was a Foxconn board based on the nForce 560 SLI and I never needed to touch a diskette to get AHCI installed.Ephebus - Tuesday, November 25, 2008 - link
Small correction, it was the nForce 570 SLI based Foxconn N570SM2AA-8EKRS2H. AHCI support was integrated in the nForce installation. Never had a board with an Intel chipset, so I'll have to take your word for it (that AHCI drivers have to be installed from diskette during XP installation as with ATI boards).binarydragons - Monday, November 24, 2008 - link
I couldn't even estimate how long it takes to do these test and with people like me asking for more must get tiring.One configuration I would be intersted in would be SLI mode with one card dedicated to Physics.
I found your article "NVIDIA Fall Driver Update (rel 180) and Other Treats" very intersting.
binarydragons - Monday, November 24, 2008 - link
After posting the PhysX comment I have been doing some reading.I am not sure Nvidia PhysX will make a differnece on Far Cry 2.
From what I can tell Far Cry 2 uses Havok physx which is cpu based.
Genx87 - Monday, November 24, 2008 - link
It would be nice to know the platform's you were using. In the past I had a major stuttering issue with a 6800GT, Nforce 3 chipset drivers, and anything over the 67.xx series drivers. I could either run the 67 series drivers with the Nvidia IDE drivers. Or run the newest version of the graphics drivers with the generic microsoft IDE controller drivers.I am wondering if this is something similar?
Secondly as a new frustrated owner of a 4850. I have since learned to uninstall the control center. What an absolute buggy POS that in my opinion appears to have the sole purpose to cause bsod or other driver related issues.
SiliconDoc - Saturday, November 29, 2008 - link
Exactly, but that CCC isn't a problem either - of course.. just ask anyone - it's perfect, I guess we can only conclude it is not an ATI issue - and that leaves, well we won't say who that leaves... (sarcasm!)( noone replied saying that because in the hype world, your comment does not exist - it's easier to pass right over and pretend it is never there - like you know the other driver issues that "never happen" with ATI. ) (dripping, oozing sarcasm)
I guess if I was an absolute master tech like so many I wouldn't have ATI driver issues... if I could just be like the master geeks I'd be so happy with ATI.
kr7400 - Tuesday, December 2, 2008 - link
Can you please fucking die? Preferably by getting crushed to death in a garbage compactor, by getting your face cut to ribbons with a pocketknife, your head cracked open with a baseball bat, your stomach sliced open and your entrails spilled out, and your eyeballs ripped out of their sockets. *beep* bitch
I would love to kick you hard in the face, breaking it. Then I'd cut your stomach open with a chainsaw, exposing your intestines. Then I'd cut your windpipe in two with a boxcutter. Then I'd tie you to the back of a pickup truck, and drag you, until your useless *beep* corpse was torn to a million *beep* useless, bloody, and gory pieces.
Hopefully you'll get what's coming to you. *beep* bitch
I really hope that you get curb-stomped. It'd be hilarious to see you begging for help, and then someone stomps on the back of your head, leaving you to die in horrible, agonizing pain. *beep*
Shut the *beep* up f aggot, before you get your face bashed in and cut to ribbons, and your throat slit.
You're dead if I ever meet you in real life, f ucker. I'll f ucking kill you.
I would love to f ucking send your f ucking useless ass to the hospital in intensive care, fighting for your worthless life.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po0j4ONZRGY">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po0j4ONZRGY
I wish you a truly painful, bloody, gory, and agonizing death, *beep*
KnowmaGPUs - Monday, November 24, 2008 - link
Boy, this review site is so biased it's not even funny!
AnandTech definitely puts the 'AT' in 'AT'I...
"None of the AMD cards are stable running FarCry 2, crossfire is dead....but we still recommend 4870...." LOL!!