Foxconn Blood Rage - If Looks Could Kill (UPDATE)
by Rajinder Gill on January 2, 2009 6:00 AM EST- Posted in
- Motherboards
It's All About Brawn... Well, Maybe
 If your CPU and parts are anything like ours, you'll soon find that this "Force Reset" button is your new best friend. |
We're not sure if our situation is unique, but that statement above relates to the fact that all three of our boards refuse to cold or stop-cycle-boot without pressing the "Force Reset" button. Once the board is running, we can apply changes to BCLK reference clocks as long as we don't change major parameters such as clock multipliers. Foxconn's manual states that use of this button resets the system and tunes the board to perform optimally with your components. We think it's primary use is related to boot up memory module read/write leveling performed by the IMC to sense module density/capacitive loads and apply clock/data skew table algorithms and/or a simple reset of all IRQ assignments. This is something that usually happens during the black screen period of the boot cycle on other boards.
As an override, the idea is sound as those of us who push components find ourselves frequently going through complete power cycles to bring boards back to boot. For us though, our boards refuse to function properly without it. Regardless of stock speeds, moderate overclocks, or the more out-on-a-limb stuff, we need to press this button every time to get the board to fire up from a change to a related BIOS function. In order to overcome this we tried PSU swaps and five brands of memory using various ICs and attendant SPDs. A BIOS update should easily fix this problem if the boot cycle configuration is moved back into automated hands. We've alerted Foxconn to this and hope to hear back from them soon. If you happen to stumble across a combination of parts that results in this scenario, you'll need to keep the side panel off your PC case. However, if you run your motherboards out of a case -- as most benchmarking fanatics do -- this probably won't bother you.
Let's press on and get down to the maximum stable speeds we achieved. First up, we have a PCMark Vantage full suite pass at 4.1GHz.
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This overclock is right on the limits of our water-cooled setup for 24/7 use. 100% processor load temps are in the region of 75C, about as far as we'd expect the processor to remain stable and over the sensible mark for many. VTT/Uncore voltage is critical and needs a sizable boost over stock to around 1.52V for Vantage to pass a full test suite loop on our retail i920 processor.
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Everest Bandwidth on the Nehalem platform is beyond reproach using triple channel memory. In truth, there's little benefit running past 1600MHz, but we thought we'd try it as the Blood Rage virtually demands it. (This and the fact that the Kingston kit is specified to run 2000MHz at 1.65V). On a side note, longer eight thread enabled Prime95 runs were destined to fail unless we increased the Uncore voltage to around 1.54-1.56V. Using a lower memory divider ratio decreases the level of Uncore Voltage required; using the 2:8 divider resulted in a fully stable pass at 1.47V. The required level of Uncore voltage is largely processor dependant, though board design does come into play as we have noticed on the DFI and ASUS boards. With a good CPU, you may get away with less voltage.
Dropping the BCLK reference to 190MHz brings the required level of Uncore voltage down to 1.45V while running the 2:10 memory ratio at 1915MHz 1T in triple channel configuration. This passes a 1 hour OCCT run, multiple loops of PCMark Vantage, and several games with ease.
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We included our test BIOS settings below for those that want to set up the board quickly before tuning it. However, there's not really much to it on this platform, other than the golden rule of keeping VTT/Uncore voltage within ~0.5V of VDDQ (VDIMM). Until we discuss additional secrets of Nehalem overclocking in the coming i7 Guide, it's a game of setting four or five key voltages and letting the BIOS do the rest. One other note to remember is to set the Uncore frequency to a minimum of 2X the memory multiplier. Failure to do so will result in a non-boot in all manual setting situations.
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On the voltages screenshot you will notice that DIMM1 DQ Ref voltage is set to 0.496X. We found this situation manifests itself whenever we ran our Kingston or G.Skill DDR3-2000 memory in a triple channel configuration. All things being ideal, these values should retain as close to 50% of VDDQ (VDIMM) as possible, unless overshoot and ringback signal effects are affecting the DATA DQ sampling window excessively (which can and does happen at higher bus frequencies).
There is a massive 62 step scale available for each of the ref voltage levels; however DIMM1 remains locked to 0.496V regardless of what you select in BIOS. We tried multiple times to reset this value to 0.50X but found the board would reset to 0.496X after boot every time. We're not sure if this is a "red-button artifact" or if this is a BIOS bug at this point. We are leaning towards a BIOS bug, as a manual user setting should work properly. If it is a bug, then a change as small as this is in the wrong direction is enough to result in an incorrect logic interpretation at very high memory speeds. We have alerted Foxconn to this and await a response.
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JarredWalton - Friday, January 2, 2009 - link
Well, 12GB would require 4GB DIMMs, which I don't think are in supply at all right now (if they even exist). I can find 4GB DDR2 DIMMs, but not DDR3.gemsurf - Friday, January 2, 2009 - link
It seems a waste of time to bother with motherboard articles on this site anymore. None of them are of a "finished" product and all have "nothing fatally wrong that can't be fixed with some bios updates" and "were hopefull fixes will be forthcoming"I thought you guys actually were starting to get it! All those incredible components and specs mean nothing if it doesn't produce a workable product in the end! So that promise of turning over a new leaf at Anands is still awaiting a "bios update" too?
It is way past time to call them what they are people! Crappy products not ready for release so don't buy them until they are!
We are you're constiuents, and we are the reason you can sell the ads here on Anands. We are who you need to "tell it like it is" to!
Many of us, like myself have been coming here since the geocities days because we have had great respect and trust in your efforts and opinions. That seems to have changed. If you want to be a beta test lab, then please change the business model and site name so we know what to expect.
jackylman - Friday, January 2, 2009 - link
They ARE telling it "like it is". This board, like several others, has great potential, but some quirks need to be worked out in the BIOS. This is an accurate reflection of the product that a consumer can buy today.One of the reasons I stopped coming to this site was because it had the tendency to use special versions of a product or BIOS that the consumer was never able to actually obtain, but reviewing an actual retail board remedies this.
If you're looking for a motherboard that has a perfect BIOS from day one of availability and never has any updates sans maybe some new CPU ID's, GOOD LUCK (and let me know when you find this magical mobo). The sad fact is that mobo manufacturers force consumers to do the beta testing, especially with new tech like the X58 chipset. IMHO, you can't rightfully blame anandtech.com for this.
gemsurf - Friday, January 2, 2009 - link
I understand what you are saying, but these boards seem to have more serious issues that do affect the everyday performance. I appreciate that there are always issues with boards and bios updates are a neccasary part of it.All I expect once again is for them to say "no, its not ready for prime time, or yes, it is ready for prime time!" Thats all!
yyrkoon - Sunday, January 4, 2009 - link
Guys, the whole point of article such as this is so *you* know what to expect from it. If you want a rock solid motherboard for a rock solid system THAT IS YOUR OWN RESPONSIBILITY.Read the reviews, and not just from this website, then go read the user reviews on newegg( and I do not care if you plan on buying from newegg or not ). Someone with half a brain should be able to figure out on their own what will work for them, or not. Do not expect someone else to do your homework for you.
Besides all this, I do not know what you all are getting so wound up about; this is after all a foxconn board, not exactly known for their reliability. If you want reliability, go with Gigabyte, MSI, whatever ( depending on the board/feature set ) and make sure to research your hardware . . .
Rajinder Gill - Friday, January 2, 2009 - link
This board has been on my test bench for three days. In that time I've done my level best to look at as many aspects of the board as I think the target audience will but it for on a whim. The fact that we are the only site highlighting the current BIOS inadequacies says something in itself. There was no way we could post a complete review without a partial look in the time at hand.The BIOS this board was tested with is current and what you'll get - we've highlighted the flaws we've found in those 3 days of testing. It takes copious hours to compile the 'little' data you see here. In that time we tested all the peripherals a basic system can provide - with the others to be covered over the three week period. What would you rather have? A full review in 2 weeks time - with a newer BIOS on the shelf or an honest look at what's here right now, albeit with limited testing?
DaveLessnau - Friday, January 2, 2009 - link
The thing is, it doesn't MATTER how pretty the board is or how kewl its specs are if the darn thing will not "cold or stop-cycle-boot without pressing the "Force Reset" button." As soon as you found this, you should have just stopped the review process and written it up with the headline: "Unable to review since it won't boot-- DO NOT BUY." And that's it. Instead, you don't even mention it until the 3rd page of the review (after fawning over the board for the first two pages). I'm sorry that you wasted "3 days of testing." But, that's your problem. You shouldn't foist it off onto your audience as some way to recover sunk costs. The board fails. Period. Anything else is moot. Do yourself and your audience a favor and just say that.7Enigma - Saturday, January 3, 2009 - link
Agreed. Gross faults like not being able to boot without pushing the forced reset button (my computer like many people's is under my desk in an enclosed space; I would laugh at anyone that asked me to crawl under there, open the case, and push a button routinely until they can get a bios fix), ports/features that don't work, and other major issues are not going to help the consumer and ultimately not help the manufacturers.Unfortunately we don't have the voice to tell these manufacturers to get their acts together. We come off simply as anti-fanboys, or anecdotal evidence at best. You and this site have the ability to directly affect sales and quality. This article should have been 1 page. Put the picture of the board with the name, and an X through it. Mention it has critical faults that are currently not fixed in the RETAIL available board selling for >$300 USD, and post it up on the main page.
And do it for the next one, and the next one, until the companies get the idea that we are not beta testers. Can you imagine if the hardware industry becomes the game industry?
bob4432 - Saturday, January 3, 2009 - link
this b.s. is why i will never buy the newest gen chip/chipset/m/b/anything - i can not be a beta tester. i have serious back issues - both neuromuscular and structural - i build my machines, get them stable and they sit next to my desk for ~6mos at which time i blow them out w/ compressed air. even if i wanted to subject myself to constant frustration and the pain i would experience for crawling next to my machine and hitting a little button all the time, i wouldn't do it because i spent ~$300 on a m/b. for that kind of $$$ it should work out of the box the way the box says it will.i would much rather have a mature p35/p45 m/b for $80-$100 and have it be ultra stable and get 90%+ of the performance of this board and save the frustration for you guys.
why don't you guys put up a pass/fail on the first page? don't ooh and ahhh over it because it may look cool to you but run like sh!t - i am not a all show no go kind of person, in fact the opposite. i don't get wet from some black and red anodized/painted/dyed heatsinks/slots and board colors....
Rajinder Gill - Saturday, January 3, 2009 - link
Fact is there are users without any problems, go check the Foxconn Support forums or ask their staff. Making a blanket statement like that would require the board to be bad in all situations - when it is clearly not. I'm not going to do that unless I know for sure, so what you'll get from me is a maybe. In the end I had to leave it as a possible and made the notification which it's clear you all understand. Initial reaction from users and support at Foxconn is that they're looking at the PSU's we used but cannot recreate it.