AMD's Radeon HD 5870: Bringing About the Next Generation Of GPUs
by Ryan Smith on September 23, 2009 9:00 AM EST- Posted in
- GPUs
Meet the Rest of the Evergreen Family
Somewhere on the way to Cypress, AMD’s small die strategy got slightly off-track.
AMD’s small-die strategy for RV770
Cypress is 334mm2, compared to 260mm2 for RV770. In that space they can pack 2.15 billion transistors, versus 956 million on the RV770, and come out at a load power of 188W versus 160W on the RV770. AMD called 256mm2 their sweet spot for the small die strategy, and Cypress missed that sweet spot.
The cost of missing the sweet spot is that by missing the size, they’re missing the price. The Cypress cards are $379 and $259, compared to $299 and $199 that the original small die strategy dictated. This has resulted in a hole in the Evergreen family, which is why we’re going to see one more member than usual.
As Cypress is the base chip, there are 4 designs and 3 different chips that will be derived from it. Above Cypress is Hemlock, which will be the requisite X2 part using a pair of Cypress cores. Hemlock is going to be interesting to watch not just for its performance, but because by missing their sweet spot, AMD is running a bit hot. A literal pair of 5870s is 376W, which is well over the 300W limit of a 6-pin + 8-pin power configuration. AMD saves some power in a single card (which is how they got the 4870 under the limit) but it likely won’t be enough. We’ll be keeping an eye on this matter to see what AMD ends up doing to get Hemlock out the door at the right power load. As scheduled we should see Hemlock before the end of the year, although given the supply problems for Cypress that we mentioned earlier, it’s going to be close.
The “new” member of the Evergreen family is Juniper, a part born out of the fact that Cypress was too big. Juniper is the part that’s going to let AMD compete in the <$200 category that the 4850 was launched in. It’s going to be a cut-down version of Cypress, and we know from AMD’s simulation testing that it’s going to be a 14 SIMD part. We would wager that it’s going to lose some ROPs too. As AMD does not believe they’re particularly bandwidth limited at this time with GDDR5, we wouldn’t be surprised to see a smaller bus too (perhaps 192bit?). Juniper based cards are expected in the November timeframe.
Finally at the bottom we have Redwood and Cedar, the Evergreen family’s compliments to RV710 and RV730. These will be the low-end parts derived from Cypress, and will launch in Q1 of 2010. All told, AMD will be launching 4 chips in less than 6 months, giving them a top-to-bottom range of DX11 parts. The launch of 4 chips in such a short time frame is something their engineering staff is very proud of.
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dieselcat18 - Saturday, October 3, 2009 - link
It truly amazes me that AnandTech allows a Troll like you to keep posting...but there is always one moron that comes to a forum like this and shows his a** to the world...So we all know it to be you...nice work not bringing anything resembling an intelligent discussion to the table..Oh and please don't tell me what it is that I bring to the conversation...my thoughts about this topic have nothing to do with my reply to you about your vulgar manner and lack of respect for anyone that has a difference of opinion.Oh and as for you paper launch...well sites like Newegg were sold out immediately because of the overwhelming demand for this card and I'll bet you anything there are cards available and in good supply at this very moment...Why don't you take a look and give us all another update.....I guess having that big "L" stamped on your forehead sums it up.....
SiliconDoc - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link
No, they didn't, because the 5870's just showed up last night, 4 of them, and just a bit ago the ONE of them actually became "available", the Powercolor brand.The other three 5870's are NOT AVAILABLE but are listed....
So "ATI paper launch" is the key idea here (for non red roosters).
1:43 PM CST, Wed. Sept. 23rd, 2009.
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Yes, I watched them appear on the egg last night(I'm such a red fanboy I even love paper launches)... LOL
crimson117 - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link
Current cheapest GTX 295 at Newegg is $469.99.http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a...p;cm_re=...
B3an - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link
Ryan, on your AA page, you have an example of the unofficial Nvidia SSAA where the tree branches have gone missing in HL2. And say because of this it's not suitable for general use.But for both the ATI pics, on either MSAA or SSAA, the tree branches are missing as well. Did you not notice this? because you do not comment on it.
Either way it looks like ATI AA is still worse, or there is a bug.
Ryan Smith - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link
We used the same save game, but not the same computer. These were separate issues we were chasing down at the same time, so they're not meant to be comparable. In this case I believe some of the shots were at 1600x1200, and others were at 1680x1050. The result of which is that the widescreen shots are effectively back a bit farther due to the use of the same FOV at all times in HL2.As you'll see in our Crysis shots, there's no difference. I can look in to this issue later however, if you'd like.
chizow - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link
Really enjoyed the discussion of the architecture, new features, DX11, Compute Shaders, the new AF algorithm and the reintroduction of SSAA an ATI parts.As for the card itself, its definitely impressive for a single-GPU but the muted enthusiasm in your conclusion seems justified. Its not the definite leader for single-card performance as the 295 is still consistently faster and the 5870 even fails to consistently outperform its own predecessor, the 4870X2.
Its scaling problems are really odd given its internals and overall specs seem to indicate its just RV790 CF on a single die, yet it scales worst than the previous generation in CF. I'd say you're probably onto something thinking AMD underestimated the 5870's bandwidth requirements.
Anyways, nice card and nice effort from AMD, even if its stay at the top is short-lived. AMD did a better job pricing this time around and will undoubtedly enjoy high sales volume with little competition in the coming months with Win 7's launch, up until Nvidia is able to counter with GT300.
chizow - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link
Holy....lolI didn't even realize til I read another comment that Ryan Smith wrote this and not Anand/Derek collaboration. That's a compliment btw, it read very Anand-esque the entire time! ;-) Really enjoyed it similar to some of your earlier efforts like the 3-part Vista memory investigation.
formulav8 - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link
I wouldn't be surprised if most of us already knew what was going to take place with performance and what-not. But its still a nice card whether I knew the specs before its official release or not. (And viewed many purposely leak benches). :)Jason
PJABBER - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link
Another fine review and nice to see it hit today. Your reviews are one reason I keep coming back to AT!Unfortunately, at MSRP the 5870 doesn't offer enough for me to move past the 4890 I am currently using, and bought for $130 during one of the sales streaks a month or so ago. Will re-evaluate when we actually start seeing price drops and/or DX11 games hit the shelves.
wicko - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link
It would have been nice to see 4890 in CF against 5870 in CF. 500$ spent vs 800$ spent :p