Biostar IDEQ 330P (Cont'd)
Construction
Discussing the construction and build quality of SFF cases is rather mundane at times, as almost every case does quite well. Unlike the ATX cases where build quality can vary a huge amount between manufacturers, SFFs are all more expensive and thus, can afford to spend a little more time to make sure that there aren't any major problems. The 330P is no exception.The exterior of the case is made of aluminum panels and plastic molding and gives us little, if any, cause for concern. While the high-gloss paint does make fingerprints easy to see, it was resistant to scratches during regular use. There are three panels on the 330P, all secured by thumb screws, and they all slide off with relative ease. On the bottom is the small mini-PCI compartment, covered by another panel that's secured by a screw.
Click on images to enlarge. |
The internal structure is mostly steel and is free from any noticeably sharp edges. Even with the hinged frame, we still found the case to be relatively sturdy. Access to all of the areas is easy to obtain, which is the benefit of the flip-top case. It is possible to remove the CPU HSF and swap CPUs without moving anything else, so if that's something you're likely to do, the 330P is perhaps the easiest out of any 939 computer that we've seen. It takes about a minute to pull off the sides and top, and another minute to open the hinged case and remove the HSF and CPU. Applying thermal grease and cleaning off your hands is likely to take more time than the actual CPU swap. The only issue that we had with the hinged frame was in closing the case. Getting the front of the case to align properly so that it would close all the way took a little bit of effort, which is why we say that the case was only "relatively" sturdy. As long as you're not careless, we'd trade a bit of structural integrity for the ease of accessing the CPU and RAM - but then, we're more likely to be swapping parts than many people.
Click on images to enlarge. |
The construction in other areas is also good. The heat sink is a solid copper design that also includes three heat pipes to help remove heat from the CPU surface quickly. A fan at the front of the case blows air directly over the heat sink, and the air is then directed over the chipset heat sink - also copper - and out the rear of the case. A second fan at the rear of the case helps to remove the remaining air in a sort of "wind tunnel" design. Biostar rates the case as being able to handle everything up to an FX-57, and we didn't encounter any issues with the CPU overheating. Unfortunately, the "wind tunnel" does appear to limit the amount of air circulating in other areas of the case, and we did have a few stability problems that may be related to the RAM and/or GPU getting too hot. We'll say more on that in a moment.
When compared to the SN25P, the 330P definitely comes out ahead in a couple of areas. First, two fans compared to five fans is a definite advantage in the noise arena, though it does come at the cost of slightly higher temperatures, which likely played a part in stability concerns. At idle, the 330P is very quiet - the quietest of this roundup, in fact. The other area where it comes out ahead is in ease of accessing the CPU. That's actually one of the worst parts about the design of the SN25P, as getting to the CPU requires the removal of the HDDs up top as well as the DVD tray, and then you still have to deal with unscrewing the HSF mount.
Click on images to enlarge. |
We did have a few complaints with the internal construction, however. One is that the retention clip for the PCIe X16 slot is very difficult to release - every bit as bad as the Shuttle X16 slots, and worse than the best options that we've seen. What's the best option? The sliding latch of the Aopen SFFs, no question. It can be moved into the open state from anywhere along the length of the graphics slot, and it doesn't require small hands or Superman strength to budge! The HDD trays are also a bit of a concern. The enclosures make installing and removing hard drives a bit easier, but in terms of construction, they really don't slide in and out of the case very easily. Since a thumbscrew secures the trays in place, we'd like the friction to be a little less - they're not just going to accidentally fall out in either case.
Click on images to enlarge. |
The final issue that we have with the internal construction is the lack of pre-installed cables. It's not that Biostar completely omitted the cables, but they didn't have all of the required cables routed to every area. The optical bay has an IDE cable and power cable readily available, but the IDE cable isn't really tucked away and features two connections, so if you only use a single IDE device (which is the likely scenario), you have the extra cable length and the unused plug just getting in the way, resting on top of the HSF and plastic shroud. Getting the IDE cable to reach both the DVD and a hard drive would be rather difficult if it's even possible, and a second IDE port makes this a moot point. The hard drive bays have SATA cables installed, and they're mostly tucked out of the way.
The real problem is the power cabling. Power for the HDDs comes from a single 4-pin molex connector, to which you attach an included splitter cable that has two SATA and two molex connections. Things are further exacerbated should you require a PCIe power adapter for your graphics card. Our X800Pro card needed such an adapter, and that was just one more cable adding to the mess - and the cable had to come from the opposite side of the case, over the top of the CPU HS, and then to the graphics card. Once all the cables are installed, the internals feel more cluttered than what we like. If you were to max out the system, you'd also end up with two hard drives and the PCIe power adapter all running off a single source molex, which could be the cause of the periodic crashes that we experienced.
The hinged design of the case is something of a Catch-22 here, as pre-routing cables can be tricky. Opening the case can pull on the cables, so they would need to ensure that all the cables have enough slack to allow the top to open. We didn't have issues with lifting the hinged section in the current design, but closing the case again required a bit of time rearranging the cables to our liking. The SATA power cables also seemed to come loose if you open and close the case frequently.
This all probably sounds highly negative, and we want to make it clear that this is not the end of the world for the Biostar case. The design works, and it works well; it just needs some adjustments in a few areas. Biostar has indicated that the design that we are reviewing is something of a prototype, and they are re-evaluating the cabling system and power supply. The main changes that we'd like to see are the inclusion of pre-routed power for the HDD bays, and a PCIe 6-pin power connection (or at least an adapter) would be great for those who need it. (Skip forward to the ST20G5 section and read our Power Problems comments on the PCIe adapter for more information on why including a connection/cable would be appreciated.) Version 1.0 isn't bad, but there is definitely some room for improvement, and we hope that version 1.1 can clear up the few remaining issues.
Setup
With all of the discussion on the construction, you can probably already guess how the setup process works. Removing the side panels followed by the top panel is the first step, and then you release the latches on the bottom-front section of the case and lift up the top of the frame. The frame has a catch that keeps it up while you work, which you can see in the right image below.Click on images to enlarge. |
Once that's done, you can remove the HDD cages and install the drives into those, as well as install the CPU, RAM, and graphics card. At that point, it's time to argue with the cables for a bit to get everything properly supplied with power. We saved the installation of the optical drive for last, after we had lowered the top back down. It could have been done earlier, but either way works. Lining the DVD buttons up with the case button is pretty simple; although, maybe we're just used to the process now: place the DVD into the bay and then position it so that the DVD eject button works properly with the case's eject button, and then secure the drive with screws.
After installing the hardware, you have to lift up the top a bit and then push that locking pin up so that you can lower the lid again. Once you've latched that into place, put the top back on followed by the sides and assembly is complete. Despite our complaints about the cables, it really isn't too difficult to accomplish this task, and the setup time was probably a bit less than the other cases, though still in the 15 to 20 minute range.
Click on images to enlarge. |
Setting up the BIOS is the next stage of assembly, and we didn't encounter any problems. We've included a couple of screenshots here, but if you want to see all that the BIOS offers, grab the full image set. We did have to force the RAM timings to 2-2-2-7, as they defaulted to 2.5-3-2-5 when set to auto timings, but other than that change, there wasn't much that we needed to muck with in the BIOS. Absent from the initial BIOS is a setting for command rate, and we have to assume that the 330P defaulted to 2T rather than 1T. A later BIOS from Biostar gave us the 1T option, and we reran the benchmarks. Performance improved by as much as 10% with the 1T command rate and updated BIOS, so you'll definitely want to get the latest BIOS.
Click on images to enlarge. |
Overclocking features are all present and accounted for on the 330P, but actual overclocking performance was sporadic. With the Newcastle 3800+, we were able to run all of our tests with a HyperTransport bus speed of up to 285 MHz with a 3X multiplier and 1T timings, but we had to use an 8X CPU multiplier, giving a CPU speed of 2284 MHz. Dropping to a 2T command rate, we managed to get the bus to 299 MHz, bringing us back to 2.4 GHz. We could not, however, get that last 1 MHz to 300x8 - close enough, though. Switching to a Venice 3200+ 2.0 GHz, we managed to run at up to 2.6 GHz with a 289x9 (3X HT) configuration. However, we had to drop the RAM to DDR333 in order to reach this speed - no combination of RAM timings would allow the Venice core to run at anything above 250 MHz at present. The end result is still positive, however, and ranks as the second best overclocking unit in this group.
The bus speed maxes out at 300 MHz with the most recent BIOS, though there are some peculiarities at present. In one BIOS, bus speeds increase in .5 MHz increments from 200 to 210, then 1 MHz increments from 210 to 230, followed by 2 MHz increments for 230 to 250. A later BIOS revision added up to 300 MHz in 4 MHz increments (the above screenshot is of an earlier BIOS). The current BIOS shows 1 MHz increments from 200 to 300, but while everything for 250 and above works properly, the 200 to 250 range actually has the wrong labels and appears to reference the earlier values. When we set the bus to 240 MHz at one point, it actually ended up running at 232 or something. While it's a bit odd, it's still possible to figure out using a combination of the BIOS and CPU-Z, but Biostar will want to address this with another BIOS update.
Installing the OS and drivers was straightforward, as usual. The driver CD includes the chipset, audio, and networking drivers, and after a couple of reboots, we're ready for benchmarking.
Noise, Heat and Performance
In terms of day-to-day use, the 330P is an interesting system. Idle noise levels - particularly with a fanless GPU - are among the lowest of any of the systems that we've tested. In typical use, you would hardly notice the presence of the 330P in the room. Adding our X800Pro card to the system increased noise levels by around 10 dB, which took it from near silent to being merely quiet - it was still quieter than almost all of the other systems in this roundup. Once we began stress testing, though, noise levels increased quite a bit.We list the maximum of the stress test noise levels, so it appears worse than it really is. Under full CPU load, the fans would speed up and slow down frequently, increasing noise levels by as much as 10 dB. The majority of the time, the system was closer to the other units. We were also surprised by how quickly the fan speed would increase under high CPU loads; 1 second after starting AutoGK, the CPU fan would audibly increase in volume.
This testing was done using the system control utility from Biostar - without the utility, idle noise levels are a bit higher, but the fans never get quite as loud. Unfortunately, the CPU became too hot and caused a system crash when looping 3DMark03 as well as a few other CPU intensive tasks, so the utility at present is required. Ideally, we prefer all the fan speed controls to be contained in the BIOS, and that doesn't seem to be fully functional right now. Having a Windows utility isn't bad, but it shouldn't be required.
Click on images to enlarge. |
The System Control utility also has some other issues. You can see two screen shots from Windows' Task Manager that we took while the system was sitting idle at the desktop. Note the CPU usage in time as well as on the performance tab. Running System Control ends up reducing performance in other applications by 7% (if they're CPU limited) because System Control is eating up CPU time. We could clearly see this in Half-Life 2 benchmarks, as there appeared to be a stutter every second or so - most likely when the utility was polling CPU temperature and adjusting fan speed. A linear 7% performance difference wouldn't be all that noticeable, but a 15 to 20% drop once a second becomes annoying in games.
We came up with a hack to help reduce the impact, but we didn't use it during testing. (Our tests reflect the way that most users will run the system.) The trick is to modify the way that System Control loads so that it runs as a low priority process instead of normal priority. This can be done by changing the shortcut to read:
When the system is idle, it won't change the fact that your CPU runs at 7% load all the time, but it will make CPU limited applications get more CPU time than the utility. We did a few quick tests and found that performance increased about 5% in 3DMark03/05 CPU tests. We'll check into this more for the follow-up article, and of course an X2 CPU would eliminate this bottleneck unless you were able to get both CPUs to 100% load.
The heat levels were generally in line with what we see in the other systems for some components, but others were warmer. The temperature of the RAM and GPU RAM are both 4 degrees C higher than the next closest system, while the CPU and HDD are slightly cooler than average. The reason for the higher temperatures is most likely due to the wind tunnel design combined with the positioning of the GPU: the HSF for the GPU faces the inside of the case rather than the outside, so it doesn't get as much cool air. Having the GPU HSF face the internal area does appear to help noise levels, as the noise projects into the internals rather than emanating directly through a nearby vent. This can be seen in the lower idle noise levels.
Performance is the one area where the 330P is trailing, and as we mentioned, the System Control utility certainly plays a part. When we first received the 330P, the BIOS lacked a command rate setting and that hurt performance quite a bit. An updated BIOS closed the gap, and the 330P actually comes out ahead in several tests. Most 939 motherboards are relatively close to each other in performance, especially when they use the same chipset; the Biostar 330P is up to 12% slower than the fastest SFF in a few instances, which is a little surprising. (That's still much better than the 22% margin that we experienced with the first BIOS revision.) If temperature and fan speeds can be controlled better from directly in the BIOS, we would expect the 330P to come out on top in many benchmarks and be close enough in the others that we wouldn't have any reservations about recommending it. For now, you'll definitely want to make sure that you get the latest BIOS from Biostar's web site, and you can try the low priority hack listed above to improve performance a bit.
Overall Impressions
The feature set of the 330P is impressive. It should be, considering the price (currently about $370 from Newegg and ZipZoomFly). Then again, the only real competition in the SFF market is the Shuttle SN25P, which runs about $10 more. If you want socket 939 and PCI Express graphics in a SFF case, you currently have three choices, and all of them are pretty expensive. We can't really fault Biostar for charging $370 given the current market rates of competing products, but many will certainly scoff at spending over $300 for such a system. When you consider that a case, PSU, and motherboard can be had for $200 or less for a basic model, it is quite expensive. Then again, good LCDs cost over $300 and many people wouldn't hesitate to buy an attractive LCD instead of a "boring" CRT. If you're interested in SFF cases, go into the purchase knowing that it's a luxury rather than a requirement.How does the 330P compare to everything else? It's a case of "win some, lose some". Performance is a little lower and noise levels are rather high when the CPU is busy, but the appearance and chassis design are very good. Expansion options are also good, basically equaling or surpassing what the competition offers. Some of the other cases support more total hard drives, but none of them offer three expansion ports (counting the mini-PCI slot). If you think that you want wireless networking and an add-in audio card or TV tuner, this is the only SFF to support that. If you want RAID and a floppy drive, or if you're interested in maximum performance, it doesn't offer that yet.
We like the design, we like the looks, and depending on how you want to use your SFF, the 330P will either work great or possibly not at all. That's really the story of small form factors in general. For now, we feel that the initial version of the 330P needs some work before it can truly reach its full potential. We have an updated BIOS, but we'd still like to see some improvements in stability and performance. Add a few minor tweaks to the internal design and power supply and we'd give it a full recommendation. If/when Biostar updates the product, we'll be happy to return to it and give it a second look. If you're mostly interested in the outward appearance, you can probably look past the issues that we've mentioned. Out of this roundup of SFFs, several of us would pick the 330P as the most visually appealing model, and looks count for a lot in this market segment.
29 Comments
View All Comments
JarredWalton - Thursday, October 27, 2005 - link
Hopefully, anyone interested in the "promised" part 2 will find this post. I'm thinking of forgetting part 2 - I just have too much stuff to do! I've run some X2 benches/tests and can tell you this.The 330P, EQ3901-300P, SN25P, and ST20G5 all worked flawlessly with dual core - once the BIOS was updated. That last part is important, so let me elaborate.
For the 330P and ST20G5, the system WOULD NOT work with the BIOS I had (i.e. POST failed or complete system instability in the case of the 330P), so I had to switch back to a single core, update the BIOS, and then it worked. The 330P at first seemed to work, but I got frequent crashes and I couldn't even flash the BIOS with the X2 installed. If you have an extra 939 CPU, you should be fine; if you don't... well, I don't know if current 330Ps or ST20G5s are shipping with the latest BIOS or not, but I doubt it. (Ask Biostar/Shuttle for more information, I would suggest.)
Notably absent from the above list of X2 supported SFFs is the SN95G5v1/v2. I have v2, and it won't get past POST with an X2 processor. V3 will apparently work, but why buy an older AGP SFF these days? The Soltek worked fine, the SN25P was probably the best fit for the X2 plus a faster GPU, but the 330P was a lot more stable with the latest BIOS update. (The BIOS seemed to address several of the stability issues I had initially.) As far as I can tell, the USB + X2 issues of the SN25P have been resolved - I couldn't get any problems to occur, but then I may not be using the "right" USB device to cause a crash.
My pick overall remains with the SN25P. I successfully overclocked an X2 3800+ to 2.70 GHz in that system, where I could only reach 2.50 GHz in the 330P and 3901. Temperatures were a little lower than the 330P, cooling is better, but the system is larger. I'd say the 330P is now second overall in the recommendation list, and it does look pretty nice. The AGP units are not worth purchasing unless you can get them really cheap.
As nice as I think the ST20G5 looks, I feel the chipset used is complete garbage. Later ATI Xpress 200 chipsets (like the Crossfire stuff) are apparently much better, but the early Xpress 200 is at best equal to the like of ALi/ULi and SiS. Even VIA would be better (outside of integrated graphics performance) than the original Xpress 200. Overclocking remains essentially non-existent, and the smaller PSU (240W) will struggle with an X2 plus faster GPU. There's no way I would recommend spending $350 on the ST20G5.
Jarred Walton
SFF and Guide Editor
AnandTech.com
P.S. I'm skipping the 775 roundup as well, and will be moving on to later 775 systems for review. Basically, all of the 915/925 SFFs are outdated by the Pentium D, so there's no reason to purchase one (in my opinion). If you really want some brief thoughts on a specific 775 SFF, email me and I'll let you know. I have looked at several of the units, but putting together a 25000 word article on outdated hardware doesn't seem like a good use of time.
highlandsun - Tuesday, November 1, 2005 - link
Thanks for following up here, I just found this roundup while googling for ST20G5 reviews. My brother has an SN95G5v2 and we spent several hours one night trying to make it behave after updating to the latest BIOS. After the update Windows no longer saw his Logitech wireless trackball (but Linux still saw it just fine) plugged into the PS/2 port. We had to go back to the original BIOS that the thing shipped with. Unfortunately the original version doesn't support Cool'n'Quiet on the Winchester or Venice 3000+ that we plugged in (we had one of each), which was why we went looking for the BIOS upgrade in the first place.Anyway, he's using the SN95 for an HTPC, and I got interested in going the same route. But I was looking at the ST20 instead. The SN25P isn't a viable option because we're using Fusion HDTV tuner cards, and they're PCI only, no PCI-E version yet. I couldn't care less about AGP vs PCI-E for video in this case, as it's all overkill for simple media streaming. (The only key feature is making sure the video card supports DxVA for DVICO's MPEG decoder to work well.) But now it seems that none of Shuttle's current offerings are really suitable, since the ST20 really is too flawed in other areas.
Has anyone ever gotten an answer from Shuttle about why they would go to the trouble of using the Nforce3 Ultra but not using its integrated Gbit LAN??
dlevens - Sunday, September 4, 2005 - link
It would be nice to see a section on customer support. I have been extremely disapointed in Shuttle support for these SFF systems. I started with the SV25 and about 10 cubes later I am running the sn25p. I have to say I hate this thing. Also surprised to see there was no mention of some major issues with stability due to cheap or faulty sata cables. There are a ton of posts on sudhian about issues related to the sata cables. Curious if Anandtech saw any of these issues? http://forums.sudhian.com/messageview.aspx?catid=4...">http://forums.sudhian.com/messageview.a...amp;thre...Although, I would expect shuttle would send a well tested machine for a review site.
I also had a miserable time finding the most stable way to build the sn25p as far as drivers. Still not sure I have it right. This would be a great section to add in a review. I made a post here reguarding driver issues.
http://forums.sudhian.com/messageview.aspx?catid=4...">http://forums.sudhian.com/messageview.a...amp;thre...
One of my biggest complaints about the sn25p is sound. Was shocked to see the Via envy praised so much in the review. Maybe this is part of the driver issues I am having or could be the game I am currently playing, but sound is breaking up constantly on this thing. I have tried both drivers from VIA and both from shuttle. Anyone else playing Warlords IV on an sn25p and able to get your sound to work? I play warlords IV and run skype in the background for voice. Sound is garbled and breaks up.
Still looking for shuttle to be unseated in the sff market, would be nice to find some quality and stability to match the high price we pay for these sff systems. And a company who stands behind their product with great support would be icing on that cake.
Dennis
JarredWalton - Thursday, October 27, 2005 - link
Hey Dennis - I don't know if you'll see this, but I'll add it for others that might look. I obviously can't play all the games out there with each unit, so all I know is that the SN25P and the Via Envy did great on the tests I ran. The sound was also completely free of static, which is not the case for several of the others. The lack of static was far more important to me than other aspects of the sound system.Anyway, I didn't run into driver issues or SATA issues. I don't know if I just got lucky or what. I did a clean install of XP SP2, then I used the included CD to get sound and networking. I then downloaded the latest nF4 chipset drivers, along with graphics drivers for the ATI card I used, and I grabbed all the updates from Windows Update. Everything seemed to run fine.
artifex - Monday, August 22, 2005 - link
I think it'd be fun to compare these to Iwill's ZMAXdp, which is a dual-Opteron SFF. Not dual core, but dual processor. SFFTech says it's using nForce3 Pro as the chipset. It's also amazingly expensive, and has a silly little fin antenna :)JarredWalton - Thursday, August 25, 2005 - link
Iwill declined to send the current ZMAXdp when I emailed them, but they're working on an updated version for the future, so we'll see.Zak - Monday, August 15, 2005 - link
Frankly, each one of them has one single fault, just one, that makes, otherwise perfect box, useless for me... Some have the card readers up front that spoil the looks and I don't need them, some have no SPDIF out, some have 4 pin FireWire connectors, some are butt-ugly, some have on-board video. They'd be perfect otherwise if not for those single small problems. I haven't found a small factor case yet that would be perfect for me. So I'm sticking to towers for now.Zak
jopa25 - Saturday, August 13, 2005 - link
Hi, congratulations and thanks for that great review, in the first placeI'd have a little question about the the measurement of the noise levels of these SFF, is there any differences in the way noise was measured in relation with the former roundup (478/754 SFF roundup) ?
I expected the newer models to be quieter without GPU fan than the 478/754 SFF. However, according to the measurements, at 12 inches far, 4 out of the 5 478/754 SFF reviewed remained below 30dB, while the new models keep in a range from 37 to 46 dB in the same test. Quite a significant difference, isn't it?
As a part of an explanation, I guess the processor used in the last roundup (AMD Athlon 64 3800+ with Newcastle core) is not exactly wonderful at power saving, but should not be far from the Intel Pentium 4 3.0 used in the other roundup anyway.
So, the question is: Is there any reasonable explanation for these high levels of noise with fanless GPU, in comparison with those from the 478/754 roundup?
JarredWalton - Saturday, August 13, 2005 - link
I'm not entirely sure why the noise levels were higher. Part of it may be due to the time of year (winter vs. summer). The room that the systems were in was probably closer to 65 F for the last roundup, whereas I'd say close to 75 F for the current roundup. A 10 degree difference in room temperature would have a substantial impact, unfortunately. (If you compare the SN25P results to the March testing, it was substantially louder during stress testing.)I may not have measured in the exact same location relative to the last SFF roundup. I think I measured the socket 478 units from the front, which may have impacted things, and I moved some desks around which could have impacted scores as well. The rear of the SFFs are now closer to a wall than the old location, so noise reflecting off the wall might be changing the readings a bit.
I tried to be consistent with all the units in the roundup, but the use of differing CPUs makes it hard to say how they compare with the older models. I would say, however, that in typical use only the G5 units were at the same level as the last roundup. The 330P idled very low, but stress tests made it quite a bit louder. The SN25P and EQ3901 are both clearly louder than everything but the e-bot, which is roughly on the same level in terms of noise.
WooDaddy - Friday, August 12, 2005 - link
Jarod,GREAT Article. For quite some time I wanted to see a review with the SN25 and ST20 together. In the meantime, I bought a Mac Mini (quit screaming "traitor"). Out of curiousity, do you or anyone know the rated noise levels of the mini? It's dead quiet even at full CPU.
For you LGA775 SFF round-up, please don't forget to consider the Trigem Kloss PC (www.klosspc.com available at ZZF). Personally, it's the best looking SFF I've seen (better than the ASUS Spressos). I've been desperately looking for a review on that badboy.
Thanks