Processor Obfuscation and You: An Update on AMD and Intel CPUs
by Kristopher Kubicki & Jarred Walton on May 17, 2005 12:00 PM EST- Posted in
- CPUs
AMD Processors
When we set out to write this guide, AMD processors were the most blatant offenders. There are four AMD cores shipping right now on the desktop, two (Hammer and Newcastle) of which also have non-standard variants with cache disabled and relabeled as other chips. Considering that most Athlon 64 processors have a different clock from core to core while the product name remains the same, it becomes real easy to get the wrong chip in many instances.First, let's take a look at the code names and features of all the currently shipping AMD processors. We'll break it down by platform to keep things manageable.
AMD Processors | ||||
Core Name | CPU Name | L2 Cache | Process | Notes |
Socket A | ||||
Thoroughbred | Athlon XP/Sempron | 256K | 130nm | |
Thorton | Athlon XP/Sempron | 256K | 130nm | |
Barton | Athlon XP/Sempron | 512K | 130nm | |
Socket 754 | ||||
Clawhammer | Athlon 64 | 1024K | 130nm | |
Newcastle | Athlon 64 | 512K | 130nm | |
Paris | Sempron | 256K | 130nm | |
Palermo | Sempron | 128K/256K | 90nm | SSE3 enabled |
Socket 939 | ||||
Newcastle | Athlon 64 | 512K | 130nm | |
Sledgehammer | Athlon 64/FX | 1024K | 130nm | |
Winchester | Athlon 64 | 512K | 90nm | |
Venice | Athlon 64 | 512K | 90nm | SSE3 enabled |
San Diego | Athlon 64/FX | 1024K | 90nm | SSE3 enabled |
Manchester | Athlon 64 X2 | 2 x 512K | 90nm | SSE3 + Dual Core |
Toledo | Athlon 64 X2 | 2 x 1024K | 90nm | SSE3 + Dual Core |
Socket 754
For those on a budget, the Socket 754 Sempron parts might be interesting. The 754 parts are decent performers, although they lack the 64-bit extensions, should you want them in the future. If you do get a Sempron, we'd recommend the 90nm Palermo (BA/BO) cores rather than the 130nm Paris (AX) cores. At the time of publication, the only Paris Sempron comes in the form of the Sempron 3100+, and it is starting to be phased out. Unfortunately, we stumble into our first problem here: there are two versions of Palermo [RTPE: Palermo] floating around. The first generation of Palermo processors uses the "D0" stepping while the second uses the "E3" stepping. On Semprons, the difference in steppings is not dramatic, since the better extensions are in the Athlon 64 chips anyway. However, the "E3" chips - denoted with "BO" in the SKU - are slightly more desirable as they are supposed to run a little bit cooler than their "D0" or "BA" predecessors.Also keep in mind that Sempron cache sizes differ every other processor; i.e. the Sempron 2600+ has 128KB of L2 cache, the 2800+ has 256KB, 128KB for the 3000+... and so on. While the onboard memory controller on the Socket 754 and Socket 939 processors helps to mitigate the impact of the reduced cache size, it's almost always desirable to grab the chip with the bigger cache if you can afford it (at least when the difference is between 128KB and 256KB). Don't let the different L2 cache sizes fool you though; all of these chips are Palermo.
So, now that you are thoroughly confused, let's make things even more confusing; enter the ubiquitous Socket 754 Athlon 64 processors. There has been talk about EOL (End of Life) on the Socket 754 desktop platform, and if that is the case, then we suspect that the Athlon 64 3700+ (2.4 GHz with 1MB L2 cache) will remain the fastest option. The 3700+ as well as the 1MB cache 3200+ and 3400+ all use the Clawhammer core, while the 512K cache chips all use the later Newcastle core. Clawhammer appears to have been a time-to-market decision, as it was expensive to manufacture due to the size. It also generates more heat than Newcastle, which isn't too surprising. The added cache adds anywhere between 3 to 10 percent performance, depending on application, which means that most people wouldn't notice the difference between the 2.4 GHz 3400+ Newcastle and the 2.4 GHz 3700+ Clawhammer.
Hammer chips (Sledgehammer and Clawhammer) are the oldest in the Athlon 64 fleet, and still us the "C0" stepping. "C0" was the original Athlon 64 (and Opteron) stepping, so if you plan on buying a Hammer chip, you're planning on buying a two-year-old processor at this point. Generally speaking, you can easily determine if a processor is a Hammer chip by the SKU; if the SKU ends in "AP" (Socket 754 512KB L2), "AR" (Socket 754 1MB L2) or "AS" (Socket 939), you're looking at a Hammer chip. Newcastle chips utilize the "CG" stepping and are slightly newer than their Hammer counterparts. You can usually spot a Newcastle processor due to the "AX" in the product SKU. Unlike Hammer chips, all Newcastle processors use "AX" regardless of cache size, including the tiny Sempron 3100+ that we mentioned earlier - which AMD dubbed Paris.
As far as overclocking is concerned, neither the Newcastle nor Clawhammer cores do very well, though the Newcastle tends to be a bit better. 2.5 GHz is typically the maximum speed that they'll run, and many of them won't handle more than about 2.4 GHz. If you want to try overclocking, your best bet is probably the Newcastle 3200+, which is relatively inexpensive and can often reach nearly the same performance level as the 3700+. Motherboard choice will also play a role in overclocking, with the DFI LANParty UT 250Gb being the star of the platform. If you already have a socket 754 motherboard, however, we'd recommend that you stick with that rather than buying the DFI simply for overclocking - you'll have better luck with the 90nm 939 parts if overclocking is what you're after. The 90nm Palermo Sempron chips seem to overclock quite well - 2.5 GHz and above can usually be reached - but the reduced cache sizes bring diminishing returns. Coupled with the need for decent RAM or the use of an asynchronous memory bus, the benefits of overclocking Sempron chips are pretty slim. In the end, a 2.5 GHz 256K Sempron will roughly match a 2.2 GHz 512K Athlon 64 on socket 754.
If you're only running a 2800+ or Sempron, it may be worthwhile to spend $200 to $300 for a faster processor, but ultimately, the platform is going to be the limiting factor. No dual core processors are planned for 754, and although PCIe may appear in a few motherboards, we have a hard time recommending such an option. It's also worth noting that the maximum supported RAM on Socket 754 motherboards is 3GB, meaning that true 64-bit support is somewhat debatable. For most Socket 754 owners, we'd say stick with what you have until you're no longer satisfied with the performance, and then upgrade to a new platform. For those who are looking to buy a new computer, we'd urge you to stay away from Socket 754 unless budget is the overriding concern. It's not necessarily a bad platform, but $50 more would allow you to upgrade to Socket 939, which we feel is the better choice.
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nserra - Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - link
I agree that the amd scheme is confusing in the point of detecting which model really is.One problem that was easily solved by adding two numbers or a letter, something like this:
Model 3200+:
>3210+ - socket 754,512Kb cache
>3251+ - socket 939,512Kb cache
>3225+ - socket 754,256Kb cache (fiction)
Or just 3210, 3220, 3230, ... or like the GPUs 3250 and 3200.
And I don’t think that Intel model scheme is better I can also be buying something that I don’t want.
muffin - Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - link
Clawhammers can be CG. They can also overclock well, better than a Newcastle can...No mention of Newark cores? Seem to overclock very well.
nserra - Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - link
Also here:http://www.amdcompare.com/us-en/desktop/default.as...
is a very good database.
nserra - Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - link
There is something you could add to the sempron part of the article.Only sempron 3000+ and up have cool&quite. The others don’t.
I don’t know also if all Amd64 processor are cool&quite(older ones).
JarredWalton - Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - link
29 - I don't know a whole lot about Turion, so if I'm completely wrong feel free to let me know. Indications so far (that I've heard) are that it will basically be a renamed Athlon 64 for socket 754, only with improved power characteristics and better sleep states. When you see the power usage reduction of the Winchester vs. the Newcastle on 939, it's safe to say that 90nm SOI parts for 754 would be much better as "Mobile" chips. Hopefully there's more to it than that, though.JarredWalton - Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - link
I'm not entirely sure I believe the memory controller makes the new San Diego and Venice "more compatible", although I suppose it could. Memory compatibility is usually more of a factor of BIOS and motherboard support. Anyway, we did (briefly - on page 3) mention the improvements to the caching algorithms/controller on the 90nm chips. I sort of lump the caching and memory controller into one group, but you are right, changes were made (we're not sure what) and the new cores are overall better choices.As for the CG Hammer cores, I'll just have to take your word on that. Kris is the stepping/SKU man. I just provided the rambling commentary. :)
Capodast - Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - link
A question about Turion.As mentioned in a previous article here "The Turion 64 is based on the latest revision E4 of the K8 core, meaning that it supports SSE3 instructions as well as lower power states ... The Turion 64 will be available in both 1MB L2 and 512KB L2 cache models, but both models will only support a 64-bit (single channel) DDR400 memory controller".
Does anyone know if it will be generally available as a socket 754 option as with the Athlon XP-M for socket A?
Heidfirst - Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - link
You don't appear to have mentioned that the Venice & San Diego have an improved memory controller allowing more RAM to run at 400. To many people that is the more important reason to get 1 rather than SSE3PS I've got a "CG" stepping Clawhammer too ...
flatblastard - Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - link
I don't blame you for what you said, i just thought it was a little out of place on the page.I mean after all, you were just being honest I guess I'm just being too picky, please forgive me. I'm Looking forward to the next buyers guide...JarredWalton - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link
It wasn't meant to be biased, and you can blame me for that. I'm just saying that *if* you've got an 865/875 system and you're thinking of upgrading, I'd either wait for Pentium D or go for socket 939. Anyway, I'll cover that more in an upcoming Buyer's Guide. Actually, the Guide is all done and submitted, so next article slot that opens up should get the Guide in it. With E3 going on this week, though, it might be Friday before the BG gets posted.I'm not trying to be biased here, but it's *really* hard to recommend a current socket 775 system. Give me 945/955 (of nF4SLI) and Pentium D and there are many cases to be made for Intel. 915/925 and Prescott is just trailing.
Worth noting (although I wasn't with AnandTech at the time) is that I said the same thing at the end of the Athlon XP era. At the lower prices, Athlon XP was still really attractive, but only a completely biased person would have recommended Athlon XP 3200+ over a similarly priced Pentium 3.0/3.2C.