The Quest for More Processing Power, Part Three: "Multi core of Intel and AMD compared"
by Johan De Gelas on May 18, 2005 3:15 PM EST- Posted in
- CPUs
Introduction
The Pentium-D dual core Pentium 4 and Opteron 875 dual core are launched. At the end of 2007, a quad core Whitefield CPU will be launched by Intel, and a quad core “K9” of AMD will make a stand against Whitefield. The multi core train has picked up speed and is unstoppable. But what will be the challenges ahead? What are the architectural advantages of the current cores? What will set the different architectures apart? Read on in this third part of The Quest for More Processing Power series.In case you missed it, in our first article, we explained that dynamic power, power leakage, the memory wall and wire delay have forced CPU designers to rethink the methods that they use to achieve higher performance CPUs.
In Part 2, Tim Sweeney, the leading developer behind the Unreal 3 engine, explained the challenges of multi-threaded development of the next generation of games.
The multi-core future...
In the past 15 years, architectural improvements have made sure that the Pentium 4 issues and retires about 6 times more integer instructions each clock cycle than an Intel 486 could on average. At the same time, the die size would have been 15 times bigger if there were no advancements in silicon process technology, and even those aggressive advancements could not avoid the fact that the Pentium 4 needs almost 20 times as much power.Clock speed increased from 33 MHz to 3800 MHz, so it is clear that clock speed, not extracting more ILP (Instruction Level Parallelism), has been the main reason why a Pentium 4 performs so much better than an i486.
However, the next generation of CPUs will be based on a completely different philosophy. The Xeon MP Version 2007, alias Whitefield, will have 4 cores, and run at speeds at around 2.6 GHz. At that speed, there are reports that it would consume less than 90 Watt. Intel will use its P-m “know-how” to keep the power dissipation so low. Each core is not really a P-m, but it is clear that the pipeline will be shorter than the one of Willamette, the first implementation of the Pentium 4’s Netburst architecture.
AMD’s K9 seems to be a slightly different beast. Andreas Stiller of C’t reported that this Quad core CPU monster would have a TDP of 140 Watt, and run at about 3 GHz.
So, it seems that clock speed will no longer drive performance, but higher IPC and more cores will.
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Viditor - Friday, May 20, 2005 - link
fitten - Thanks very much for the explanation!fitten - Friday, May 20, 2005 - link
"When a thread is blocked it got swapped out of the processor all together. It is the OS's job to check if some conditions are met to re-waken a thread. So a waiting thread will not be actively checking that data at any time.Only in single-write/multi-read situation (server/consumer model) those consumer threads are not blocked but actively checking for new data."
Only if you are using synchronization primitives (mutex, critical section, semaphore, etc.) which are kernel objects or you call sleep() or something in the midst of reading/writing values. If you are just reading/writing a memory location, the OS doesn't know anything about it. Plus, if you have multiple CPUs/cores, more than one thread can be running simultaneously, which is where the MOESI protocols really come into play.
cz - Friday, May 20, 2005 - link
When a thread is blocked it got swapped out of the processor all together. It is the OS's job to check if some conditions are met to re-waken a thread. So a waiting thread will not be actively checking that data at any time.Only in single-write/multi-read situation (server/consumer model) those consumer threads are not blocked but actively checking for new data.
fitten - Thursday, May 19, 2005 - link
"When you write a program where the threads are effectively fighting over the ownership of data, particularly in the current designs of multiprocessor (this includes multi-core) cache systems, performance will tank because of all the overhead of taking ownership and such"But doesn't AMDs MOESI protocol help avoid this by allowing one cache to copy data from another?"
No, MOESI doesn't help avoid the problem - It is the mechanism of how the problem is arbitrated and resolved.
Simplified example: CPU1 wants some data. The cache subsystem uses MOESI to determine that CPU0 currently owns that data. MOESI protocols are then used to transfer the ownership of that data to CPU1 (including copying the data to a different cache if necessary). Meanwhile, one (definitely the writing core) or both cores must wait while the MOESI stuff is done and then CPU1 is allowed to proceed with its write.
So, you can write a two thread program where each thread does nothing but writes a value into a memory location (both threads write to the same memory location). That cannot be avoided by anything. On every write, MOESI will be invoked to resolve the ownership of the data and make sure the processor currently wanting to write to that memory location owns it. So, these two threads will generate massive amounts of MOESI traffic between the two caches (on a multi-core or multi-processor machine) because both cores want to effectively always own that memory. While MOESI is fast, it still takes time to resolve, longer than not having to do the transfer of ownership and any copying required in any case. So, you have two cores fighting over the data and generating a lot of MOESI overhead which saps performance from both cores (both cores spend a bit of time waiting until the cache tells it that it can do its writing).
"I agree fully that most multi threaded applications are coarse grained. But there are HPC applications where you can not avoid to work on shared data. I believe fluid dynamics, and OLTP applications that mix writes with reads (and use row locking) are examples."
Absolutely. There are times when it simply cannot be avoided and must be done. But, if you can avoid it, then you probably want to avoid it :)
JohanAnandtech - Thursday, May 19, 2005 - link
Ahkorishaan:Good summary, that is most likely what is happening at Intel.
bob661:
"The Quest for More Processing Power, Part Three: ", that doesn't sound like a buyers guide hey? :-)
nserra:
Very astute! Ok, ok, "AMDs current dual core architecture is pretty good, let’s wait Until Intel gets it right :-).
Fitten:
I agree fully that most multi threaded applications are coarse grained. But there are HPC applications where you can not avoid to work on shared data. I believe fluid dynamics, and OLTP applications that mix writes with reads (and use row locking) are examples.
Viditor - Thursday, May 19, 2005 - link
"When you write a program where the threads are effectively fighting over the ownership of data, particularly in the current designs of multiprocessor (this includes multi-core) cache systems, performance will tank because of all the overhead of taking ownership and such"But doesn't AMDs MOESI protocol help avoid this by allowing one cache to copy data from another?
fitten - Thursday, May 19, 2005 - link
Processes that will benefit from fast cache-cache transfers are ones that are multithreaded and the threads are manipulating the same data. There are applications that do this, but usually when you design multi-threaded applications you try to avoid these type situations. When you write a program where the threads are effectively fighting over the ownership of data, particularly in the current designs of multiprocessor (this includes multi-core) cache systems, performance will tank because of all the overhead of taking ownership and such. Shared (L2) caches tend to help this out because the data doesn't actually have to be transfered to the other core's cache as a part of the taking of ownership, the cache line(s) can stay right where they are with only the ownership modified.Anyway, HPC code usually goes through pains to avoid the situation where ownership of data must switch between processes/threads often. That's why data partitioning is one of the most important steps of application design in parallel applications.
blackbrrd - Thursday, May 19, 2005 - link
Uhm.. #19 - that is exactly the point, to check if a row is locked you most likely have to query the other caches to see if it is locked or not...JNo - Thursday, May 19, 2005 - link
"In Part 2, Tim Sweeney, the leading developer behind the Unreal 3 engine, explained the challenges of multi-threaded development of the next generation of games."...before showing off a beautiful working demo of the Unreal 3 engine on the 7-core PS3 cell processor that was put together in only 2 months and that was relatively easy to develop according to the Unreal guys themselves... Ha! (cos Sweeney did downplay the use of multithreading in games if you read his original comments)
cz - Thursday, May 19, 2005 - link
It is an interesting read I would say. But I would like to point out that OLTP programs will not benefit from cache2cache performance very much. That is because the very principle of multi-threaded programming requires the user account to be locked before updating. So only one thread can update an user account at any given time and other threads are blocked. Only programs that use data in single-write and multi-read form will benefit from cache2cache performance. And most likely these applications will be some sort of scientific simulations.